DCC Battery Powered DCC
- Thread starter richard carr
- Start date
simond
Western Thunderer
The 9F tender's only got 6 wheels, they're easily equalised... and as commented, split axles or even wipers, easy solution on a tender loco.
I think the idea of being able to have the DCC functionality without the track & wheel cleaning (and, though it isn't a big deal, at least indoors, track supplies, unless it's really complicated...) is really attractive.
I wonder if Zimo or ESU (or even Lenz) will pick it up and offer an integrated decoder/ receiver with bells & whistles. Of course if they don't offer an open system, much of the interoperability will be lost, which would be a shame.
Best
Simon
I think the idea of being able to have the DCC functionality without the track & wheel cleaning (and, though it isn't a big deal, at least indoors, track supplies, unless it's really complicated...) is really attractive.
I wonder if Zimo or ESU (or even Lenz) will pick it up and offer an integrated decoder/ receiver with bells & whistles. Of course if they don't offer an open system, much of the interoperability will be lost, which would be a shame.
Best
Simon
Mike Sheardown
Western Thunderer
I too can see the benefits of battery power and the ability to do away with all the wiring complexity and track cleaning / maintenance that using rails as a power supply entails.
However, one of the key advantages to powered rails with DCC, is that there is a method of track circuit detection built in by default, and this can be really useful if you are wanting to detect the presence of trains in a prototypical fashion, say for a track diagram, or for some form of interlocking with points / signals, or for computer control etc.
I only mention this point, as it hasn't been touched on so far, and it's use is the hinge pin of my own model railway plans ie without track detection, my own railway concept wouldn't work at all.
Hope the above is a useful addition to the discussion
Cheers
Mike
However, one of the key advantages to powered rails with DCC, is that there is a method of track circuit detection built in by default, and this can be really useful if you are wanting to detect the presence of trains in a prototypical fashion, say for a track diagram, or for some form of interlocking with points / signals, or for computer control etc.
I only mention this point, as it hasn't been touched on so far, and it's use is the hinge pin of my own model railway plans ie without track detection, my own railway concept wouldn't work at all.
Hope the above is a useful addition to the discussion
Cheers
Mike
John Miller
Western Thunderer
I think 2.4 GHz has pretty much superceeded 40 MHz for model trains - It's far more reliable and free from interference and enclosing the antena in the brass side tanks of my Roundhouse locos appears not to affect the signal reception at all.
Horatio
Member
There is another solution to running DCC decoders with sound etc that does not involve importing from the USA.
I have been investigating/playing with battery powered radio control for about two years now. I had a reasonably large DCC O gauge railway (now being dismantled) in the garden and the hour and a half needed to clean the track and get it ready for running was a real disincentive to do any running at all. One day I came across the Freerails.com site and the forum titled RC Control...The future...Now...if you desire. This was my introduction to radio control.
In it there is a long thread (>800 posts and 150,000 views) discussing the pros and cons of 2.4Ghz radio control equipment made by Deltang . I bought a couple of receivers (about £30 each) and a small handheld transmiter ( about £40), three Li-ion batteries and had a starter set for battery powered radio control. It worked well. As this was experimental I found it easier to put the equipment in a following van to start with. The problem was that I wanted the sound and smoother running (bemf) my DCC decoders provided.
For some time there have been manufacturers in the USA that provide radio control of a DCC decoder but each manufacturer used a frequency that, apparently, was illegal in the UK. It is good news that Tam Valley now has a product for Europe.
12 months ago there was a one-liner mention in the Trade News of the Gazette that DCC Supplies were importing a system from Denmark that allowed full radio control of a DCC decoder. It is produced by GamesonTrack . You need a GT-Xconnect box connected to the DCC command station to broadcast the signal to the loco and a GT-Xcommand receiver in the loco connected to the decoder. The GT-Xconnect is a multifunction box but programable through a PC. I needed a couple of emails to Denmark to get it working. I am no electronics wizard and for me, at least, it was not exactly plug and play.
One advantage is that the receiver in this system is continuously rated at 3 amps (5 amps surge) so well matched with my Loksound XL decoders
Below is a link to a very short video of my G1 SanCheng Black 5 running on a test track. The video was never intended for public release - I was filming as well as pushing the function buttons hence the jerky picture. It was made a few months ago and now I am moving house so this project has taken a back seat. The decoder is a SWD Loksound4 XL U-drive straight out of the box. The battery is a 4 cell in series LiFePO4 giving 13.2V. The decoder,battery and receiver are all in the tender. The speaker is basic. All the sound functions worked except the guard's whistle.
Full radio control is a 2 stage affair. The first is from the handset/controller to the command station; a facility now offered by a number of manufacturers. I found I could use both my existing Digitrax radio handset and a new Daisy 2 from Uhlenbrock as handset/controllers without problem. Additionally, I think it must be possible to use wi-fi linked to a computer running JMRI linked in turn to the command station and an iphone, tablet etc as a handset/controller.The second stage is sending the DCC signal from the command station to the loco by radio and this is the major advance, and the subject of this thread.
So there it is. Almost full control of a DCC decoder by radio. The future, here in the UK ... now !!
I know of a couple of other interesting developments in radio control. I am sure there are others.
Bluerailtrains (BlueRail Trains – Bluetooth Smart Train Control) - a US company - have developed a system based on Bluetooth technology. The advantage is that it is cheap if you already own an iphone, ipod etc as all you need is the receiver in the loco. This technology has been supported by Bachmann and some US rtr locos are available, ready fitted
Protocab (Acc+Ess Protocab) - a UK based company - are developing a system that includes transmitters, receivers and batteries. The current offering seems to be aimed at 4mm as the power rating is less than 1 amp.
Below are links to the equipment mentioned
Deltang (DT receivers-Home)
For assembled Deltang controllers (Radio Control)
GamesonTrack (GT-Xconnect and GT-Xcontrol for scale 0/1/G trains)
GamesonTrack UK supplier (Games On Track)
Digitrax radio handset (Duplex Radio Equipped Super Throttle for Europe)
Uhlenbrock Daisy 2 radio handset and UK supplier (Uhlenbrock 66350 DAISY II additional radio handset)
I have been investigating/playing with battery powered radio control for about two years now. I had a reasonably large DCC O gauge railway (now being dismantled) in the garden and the hour and a half needed to clean the track and get it ready for running was a real disincentive to do any running at all. One day I came across the Freerails.com site and the forum titled RC Control...The future...Now...if you desire. This was my introduction to radio control.
In it there is a long thread (>800 posts and 150,000 views) discussing the pros and cons of 2.4Ghz radio control equipment made by Deltang . I bought a couple of receivers (about £30 each) and a small handheld transmiter ( about £40), three Li-ion batteries and had a starter set for battery powered radio control. It worked well. As this was experimental I found it easier to put the equipment in a following van to start with. The problem was that I wanted the sound and smoother running (bemf) my DCC decoders provided.
For some time there have been manufacturers in the USA that provide radio control of a DCC decoder but each manufacturer used a frequency that, apparently, was illegal in the UK. It is good news that Tam Valley now has a product for Europe.
12 months ago there was a one-liner mention in the Trade News of the Gazette that DCC Supplies were importing a system from Denmark that allowed full radio control of a DCC decoder. It is produced by GamesonTrack . You need a GT-Xconnect box connected to the DCC command station to broadcast the signal to the loco and a GT-Xcommand receiver in the loco connected to the decoder. The GT-Xconnect is a multifunction box but programable through a PC. I needed a couple of emails to Denmark to get it working. I am no electronics wizard and for me, at least, it was not exactly plug and play.
One advantage is that the receiver in this system is continuously rated at 3 amps (5 amps surge) so well matched with my Loksound XL decoders
Below is a link to a very short video of my G1 SanCheng Black 5 running on a test track. The video was never intended for public release - I was filming as well as pushing the function buttons hence the jerky picture. It was made a few months ago and now I am moving house so this project has taken a back seat. The decoder is a SWD Loksound4 XL U-drive straight out of the box. The battery is a 4 cell in series LiFePO4 giving 13.2V. The decoder,battery and receiver are all in the tender. The speaker is basic. All the sound functions worked except the guard's whistle.
Full radio control is a 2 stage affair. The first is from the handset/controller to the command station; a facility now offered by a number of manufacturers. I found I could use both my existing Digitrax radio handset and a new Daisy 2 from Uhlenbrock as handset/controllers without problem. Additionally, I think it must be possible to use wi-fi linked to a computer running JMRI linked in turn to the command station and an iphone, tablet etc as a handset/controller.The second stage is sending the DCC signal from the command station to the loco by radio and this is the major advance, and the subject of this thread.
So there it is. Almost full control of a DCC decoder by radio. The future, here in the UK ... now !!
I know of a couple of other interesting developments in radio control. I am sure there are others.
Bluerailtrains (BlueRail Trains – Bluetooth Smart Train Control) - a US company - have developed a system based on Bluetooth technology. The advantage is that it is cheap if you already own an iphone, ipod etc as all you need is the receiver in the loco. This technology has been supported by Bachmann and some US rtr locos are available, ready fitted
Protocab (Acc+Ess Protocab) - a UK based company - are developing a system that includes transmitters, receivers and batteries. The current offering seems to be aimed at 4mm as the power rating is less than 1 amp.
Below are links to the equipment mentioned
Deltang (DT receivers-Home)
For assembled Deltang controllers (Radio Control)
GamesonTrack (GT-Xconnect and GT-Xcontrol for scale 0/1/G trains)
GamesonTrack UK supplier (Games On Track)
Digitrax radio handset (Duplex Radio Equipped Super Throttle for Europe)
Uhlenbrock Daisy 2 radio handset and UK supplier (Uhlenbrock 66350 DAISY II additional radio handset)
richard carr
Western Thunderer
I finally got to test the 37 equipped with batteries yesterday.
The loco now has a 40mm speaker attached to it. The batteries were on for about 8 hours, with the sound on most of the time. It did in the region of 25 laps of croscombe (48 feet by 25 feet) hauling between 4 and 6 coaches at various speeds from a crawl to flat out. It ran beautifully at all speeds.
The loco has 8 1000 mAh batteries powering it, when fully charged these showed 10.5 volts on a volt meter, quite a bit higher than the nominal 1.2 volts per cell which would be 9.6 volts, but that is normal in my view. I measured the voltage again this morning and it still shows 10.26 volts.
I have a ramp meter built into the DCC system (ie a volt meter designed to measure the DCC wave form) this usually shows a current draw for loco equipped with the same motor, decoder and speaker of 250 ma, so the 1000 mAh batteries should give close to 4 hours running, yesterdays test suggests that this is correct.
I will have the voltage regulator board next week to see what difference that makes.
Richard
The loco now has a 40mm speaker attached to it. The batteries were on for about 8 hours, with the sound on most of the time. It did in the region of 25 laps of croscombe (48 feet by 25 feet) hauling between 4 and 6 coaches at various speeds from a crawl to flat out. It ran beautifully at all speeds.
The loco has 8 1000 mAh batteries powering it, when fully charged these showed 10.5 volts on a volt meter, quite a bit higher than the nominal 1.2 volts per cell which would be 9.6 volts, but that is normal in my view. I measured the voltage again this morning and it still shows 10.26 volts.
I have a ramp meter built into the DCC system (ie a volt meter designed to measure the DCC wave form) this usually shows a current draw for loco equipped with the same motor, decoder and speaker of 250 ma, so the 1000 mAh batteries should give close to 4 hours running, yesterdays test suggests that this is correct.
I will have the voltage regulator board next week to see what difference that makes.
Richard
Hobbyhorse
Western Thunderer
Manufacturing of the BlueRail boards is about to start, I've got a few projects put aside that these will be ideal.
The boards open up a lot of possibilities controlling locos etc.
BlueRail Trains – Bluetooth Smart Train Control
The boards open up a lot of possibilities controlling locos etc.
BlueRail Trains – Bluetooth Smart Train Control