7mm 19th Century Nswgr Workbench

David Taylor

Western Thunderer
Hi all. As promised in my "hello" message here is a thread about models I'm working on.

The first model I tried to build is an 0-6-0 tank loco called an 18-class in NSW. It has 1/16" brass frames, rigid chassis in Slaters top-hat bearings, flangeless middle wheels, it even had coupling rods made from filed down rail. Straight out of the 30s, except it is only 10 years old. It never got finished. I got sick of making new chassis for it, and the bodywork isn't too hot either.

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Next up was a hearse. Plastic body, wooden underframe, home etched underframe details. I never got the roof onto it because it requires a double-roof (we had a lot of them out here to keep the heat down) with ornate little pillars and filligree to hold the two roofs apart. I couldn't figure out how to make them. Then the underframe fell apart because it was put together with PVA. I still have the body somewhere in the shed.


Now an open wagon, called a D wagon. Another plastic body, the wooden underframe had all the proper timber
members and the floor had individual planks, and more home etched underframe details. Fully sprung wheels. I tried making the brake work on this one, but it didn't turn out. I came home one day to find it all bent out of shape after my wife gave it to the kids to play with.

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Another D wagon, from a kit this time. I put this off for years because the instructions were badly photocopied and I couldn't figure out how it went together. I eventually asked the manufacturer for some help and he sent me enough photos of his build that I could get on with it. It's actually a ripper of a kit - everything fit just right, heaps of detail including things like the metal strapping along the top of the body, springs made from individual leaves, holes etched for scale hardware nuts, working handbrake... But I'm too cheap to buy the nuts and too lazy to make them so it can't be painted yet.

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Now a Slater's K class Manning Wardle with an extra etch to make it into one which we had in NSW. The etch is from the same place as the D wagon kit above. This was the first (and only) locomotive kit I've built and I found it a real pig to work on. I didn't enjoy it at all but it cost a bundle so I forced myself to try and finish it. I had to cut the top and bottom from the chimney and turn a new middle part to match the longer chimney on our local version. The kit is done aside from the reversing lever and reach rod, sandboxes (the ones in the kit are incorrect for my prototype), drain cock operating links, and assorted plumbing around the saddle tank which I can't find details of. It runs like a dog, but I can't be bothered to try and fix it. Not my favourite model.

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Now the 4-4-0 built by Dubs. I think this is one of the most elegent locos we had in NSW, until they started putting standard Belpaire boilers on them which made them quite messy and ugly like most NSW locos post 1900. I'm modelling it as delivered with a round topped firebox and sloping smokebox. This loco has Joy valve gear which I'm trying to model. The loco is on it's 3rd set of frames, 2nd body, heavily chopped and patched boiler, 2nd crank axle, cylinders, motion plate, etc. It's quite a learning experience. In despair at breaking more drills making fiddly little valve gear components I made a start on the tender which has split frames. I'm pretty happy with the way the tender is, going it being put together pretty much on the fly and without a lot of planning (as are all my models!)

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And today, while putting off trying to add the studs around the new rear cylinder covers for the 4-4-0 I decided to dig out that first effort at a loco and redo the frames. The plan is to keep the super-thick frames themselves but use hornblocks with roller bearings, split-axles, and have a go at making milled coupling rods. If all that works out I then have to make a new body to bring it up to standard I guess. Later is a photo showing a before/after shot of one cleaned up frame and one just out of the flames. As these aren't modern girly-man frames a soldering iron wasn't up to the job of dismantling them.

So there you go - many starts, no finishes, countless mistakes, accidents, and tragedy, . When I get around to S scale (probably LSWR), I'm going to choose the most plain loco I can find, not put any inside valve gear on it, get the damned thing running and painted, and call it a day. Shame I only own the book of pre-1900 locos!

Hmmm, I can't add any more photos to this post. I'll put them in the next one.

Regards,
David.
 

28ten

Guv'nor
They look really interesting, do you have any links to the prototypes? I can envisage what they look like :oops:
 

David Taylor

Western Thunderer
All our initial locos and stock came from British companies, and we continued to get many locos from there. After a while we started getting US locos too, mostly Baldwin, but they were weird, ugly looking things for the most part. They look just like you think they did! The very first stuff was basically LNWR I think - McConnell designed the loco.

Yes, the 16 class came in two batches. The first from Beyer, then from Dubs. They had different valve gear and front bogies, otherwise essentially the same at least in looks.

"Tea vans and tiffin coaches"? Eh? I don't get that at all! We did have a famous set of lineside signs from a tea company showing how far you were from the factory...

I've decided not to add studs around the 16 class rear cylinder covers. The risk is too great. Here is a photo showing the old motion plate and slidebars, and cylinder covers along with the new ones.

I spent all Saturday carefully designing and machining the new cylinder covers. Two parts each so I could get the cut-outs for the slide bars just right. Then the bits soldered together and turned down to make it all clean. Looked at putting the slide bars on the next day and found I'd mis-thought it all and made the bit where the slide bars go a mm too wide each side. Hence the now really crappy looking gouged cut-outs and rough filing. Stupid hobby.

The new motion bracket was made by milling rather than fabrication. It looks neater but I need a much smaller radius slot drill to get better corners. I'm going to leave it because I'm trying to convince myself a mostly good loco which gets finished is probably better than an unfinished jewel.

Regards,
David.

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David Taylor

Western Thunderer
I couldn't find a couple of photos I wanted to post before, so here they are. First the hearse model, then a photo of the D wagon floor and underframe being put together.

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Dog Star

Western Thunderer
.... then a photo of the D wagon floor and underframe being put together.

The open wagon construction looks interesting - any more photos? Surprised that the ends of the floor planks are not supported - is that longitudinal plank correct?

regards, Graham
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
:thumbs: "Dubs"... One of the most famous British Export Locomotive builders of the past, yet these days I bet not many UK Railway enthusiasts here have even heard of it....:rolleyes::confused:

Dübs & Co. (umlaut!) built locos for the home market too. For example, they built five 477 class, ten 265 class and ten 245 for the Great Eastern Railway before that company was in a position to build everything in-house.

Of course, of great relevance to the followers of western hydraulics who populate shadowy corners of this forum is that Dübs & Co. was one of three constituent Glaswegian companies that formed the North British Locomotive Co. in 1903, the others being Neilson, Reid & Co., and Sharp, Stewart & Co.
 

David Taylor

Western Thunderer
The open wagon construction looks interesting - any more photos? Surprised that the ends of the floor planks are not supported - is that longitudinal plank correct?

regards, Graham

Good question, it hadn't occured to me. The longitudinal planks are on the drawing, which isn't just a weight/outline diagram, so I think they're ok. But as you say the ends of the floor planks have no support... maybe they were really, really thick.

No more photos I can find though. I seem to have lost a lot of them at some point because I recall taking more during construction.

Regards,
David.
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Nice models David :thumbs:. I get to see quite a bit of 7mm NSW stuff as Oz7mm on here lives nearby, although his are set in the transitional steam diesel period and are in ScaleSeven.

Hopefully he'll begin to document his impending layout on here too...
 

Wagonman

Western Thunderer
Dübs & Co. (umlaut!) built locos for the home market too. For example, they built five 477 class, ten 265 class and ten 245 for the Great Eastern Railway before that company was in a position to build everything in-house.

Of course, of great relevance to the followers of western hydraulics who populate shadowy corners of this forum is that Dübs & Co. was one of three constituent Glaswegian companies that formed the North British Locomotive Co. in 1903, the others being Neilson, Reid & Co., and Sharp, Stewart & Co.


Dübs built several locos for the old M&SWJR – their no.9 was a very handsome beast – as did Sharps and later the NBL. I seem to remember they had a distinctive diamond shaped maker's plate. Sorry, bit of an MSW groupie.

The comments about tea and tiffen rightfully belong in the context of the Raj; some people's geography.... :)

Anyway, nice work

Richard
 

Wagonman

Western Thunderer
Nowt wrong with my geography... can get tiffin in Asda and in Costa Coffee.....

Not establishments that I frequent (is there an emoticon for snooty git?). Actually, come to think of it, didn't Frys once make a chocolate bar called 'Tiffen' ? You'd probably need to be over 60 to remember it. But we are getting off the subject...
 

David Taylor

Western Thunderer
Hi all!

It's been a while, I've been working on 5" gauge projects. For a change of pace I thought I'd try something new on the Z-16 4-4-0.

I wasn't happy with the smokebox and cylinders so I made a new piece from a block of aluminium. This should be able to act as a frame spacer as it fits between them as the real one did. This one was milled using a boring bar for the boiler-sized hole and a rotary table for the outside profile. It still has a fair amount of work to go but the basic shape is there.

A new boiler has been turned from steel rod. There is a cut-out at the firebox end for the motor, and that end has been turned down slightly to allow for a wrapper to go around to represent the firebox. The holes for the clack valves were made with a slot drill to look like the big holes through the boiler cladding, with small holes in them to take the mounting spigots for the valves.

I was going to turn the bands in place, but decided that was too hard. I'm using a steel rod for weight, but there might be too much of it towards the front. Perhaps weighing the drag-beam down with the tender will help get all that weight on the driving wheels, or perhaps I'll need to hollow out the front of the boiler too.

Then after reading Paul Bernsten's article on turning domes and chimneys I decided to give that a go. I also made the tool which was described by someone else in a later article to help shape the bottom flare, but in haste I made a mistake so had to try and form the bottom flare by hand. It's not great but it's good enough! The top profile isn't right either but I decided to down tools before really stuffing something up. The first photo shows the state of play before shaping the bottom flare, as it came off the lathe after having the tapered sides turned and the top profile roughed in.

The dome is tapped 0BA, and a stud was made with 0BA to screw into the dome, and 1/8" plain to push into a hole drilled into the top of the boiler.

Regards,
David.

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David Taylor

Western Thunderer
Hi all,

While waiting for brass rivets and half-round beading for the 5" gauge project, the 7mm 4-4-0 is getting some progress.

The chimney is mostly done, just needing cleaning up with emery paper. It was turned basically to the instructions of Paul Bernsten, except the whole thing was formed before parting off because I found it wobbled too much on the mandrel with the 0BA thread so couldn't use that to allow me to work on the top after parting off. Lucky I put the mandrel in the base to see how much it would wobble rather than just assuming it would be okay. Must have been one of my few good days.

The whole thing was shaped by twiddling lathe handwheels and smoothing out the result with a half-round file. The base was finished off with a dremel and the file, then emery paper.

The next job is the firebox. I'd cut, annealed, and rolled the wrapper a couple of weeks ago. Tonight I made the throatplate and soldered it to the wrapper. These then slide over the firebox section of the turned boiler which was been turned down slightly to accomodate the thickness of the wrapper. The fit is pretty good so far. The photos should show how it fits on.

The throatplate still needs trimming to depth to stop at the top of the frames, and the wrapper probably needs cutouts to clear the rear driving wheels (due to FS back-to-back). There will also no doubt be much shaping to be done over the front splashers.

So now I have to do the back of the firebox including a nut soldered on so it can be screwed to the spectacle plate.

With all this success I tried to persuade some of the bodywork into a better position and to be better attached. This didn't go well. I'm considering re-doing all the bodywork in thicker material and to basically try and do it better 3rd (or 4th? Can't remember) time around.

It occured to me that perhaps I should shape the bottom of the cab sides to the actual shape of my footplate rather than to the drawing, because the two differ by enough to matter.

Anyway, the photos!

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