Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
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- Thread starter Jordan or Plymouth Mad
- Start date
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
I think there's an element of age that comes into it, I read somewhere that you're most likely to model what you remember from your childhood, around the age of 14. I don't know if that holds true for everyone, but it's certainly the case with me. Sectorisation, which started in 1987, is all I really remember, and I remember best the railway shown in the DVD's you've been watching (I'm guessing those are the 'Railfreight Today' ones, which were filmed between 1991 and 1993 IIRC).
I guess there's a trade-off between less variety in terms of traction, but more variety in terms of liveries in the 1990's and more variety in traction, and no variety in terms of livery in the 1970's/80's. You could also argue that 1982 was approaching the end of the 'traditional railway' in terms of steam-era infrastructure.
I'm quite taken with 1991, both my 4 and 7mm modelling are rooted firmly in that year, but I've no interest in the post-privatisation railway.
I guess there's a trade-off between less variety in terms of traction, but more variety in terms of liveries in the 1990's and more variety in traction, and no variety in terms of livery in the 1970's/80's. You could also argue that 1982 was approaching the end of the 'traditional railway' in terms of steam-era infrastructure.
I'm quite taken with 1991, both my 4 and 7mm modelling are rooted firmly in that year, but I've no interest in the post-privatisation railway.
Neil
Western Thunderer
Interesting question, not sure my thoughts on the matter are fully formed, may have to come back for another bite of the cherry but here goes....
My main modelling interest (Morfa) would be from when I was aged seven and three quarters till I was thirteen, which looks like it's a close fit with Jordan's first rule of nostalgia. My wildly tangential sub projects again favour the historical, 1800's narrow gauge, post revolutionary Cuba, France the pre-garish years and Somerset roadside tramway before the great war.
Now although the sectorisation era is historical, some aspects of it, in particular the jumble of both passenger and freight liveries seem just like the kaleidoscope of colours that come with contemporary train travel. I like the coherent look of the corporate blue era, how it covered every aspect of the railways assets and how joyous it was to find the chinks in the corporate armour where history glimmered through in the shape of regional signage, a tatty green loco or piebald dmu. Today,s scene has an oxymoronic quality in that the marketing men demand that their piece of the action stands out but reality is that it never can against the background of a cacophony of colours.
However as a regular rail traveller, I am interested in the modern rail scene even if it's just to identify which seats in which units have enough leg room for my gangling frame, it's just that I wouldn't want a model of it.
My main modelling interest (Morfa) would be from when I was aged seven and three quarters till I was thirteen, which looks like it's a close fit with Jordan's first rule of nostalgia. My wildly tangential sub projects again favour the historical, 1800's narrow gauge, post revolutionary Cuba, France the pre-garish years and Somerset roadside tramway before the great war.
Now although the sectorisation era is historical, some aspects of it, in particular the jumble of both passenger and freight liveries seem just like the kaleidoscope of colours that come with contemporary train travel. I like the coherent look of the corporate blue era, how it covered every aspect of the railways assets and how joyous it was to find the chinks in the corporate armour where history glimmered through in the shape of regional signage, a tatty green loco or piebald dmu. Today,s scene has an oxymoronic quality in that the marketing men demand that their piece of the action stands out but reality is that it never can against the background of a cacophony of colours.
However as a regular rail traveller, I am interested in the modern rail scene even if it's just to identify which seats in which units have enough leg room for my gangling frame, it's just that I wouldn't want a model of it.
Tappa
Western Thunderer
I would say a bit of everything. My own interests stop around the late 80's/early 90's. I always have half an eye on the current scene, but wouldn't be interested in modelling it. My current project that I am involved in is set in 1975/76 on the Widended Lines in London and I have no memories what so ever of it
but the period is just dying to be modelled.I think that one of the attractions of the period upto the 80's is that chunks of the network had not yet been modernised and so it was still possible to see a lot of steam era infrastucture being used in a "modern" setting.
Jeff
iploffy
OC Blue Brigade
If the response I make seems a little emotional please excuse me
Sorry but the railways died when they painted the loco's in those dreadful liveries. It was a case of this is mine and you can't use it and to prove it we are going to paint it a different colour, this actually happened and I can prove it. In the late 1980's I was a Senior Conductor with Intercity brilliant job!, we came to grief on Rugby flyover just before the catch points, there was no IC loco available so our control asked Rugby freight if they could drag us into the station, the answer was a very resounding NO!!!!!!, we had to wait for 2 very grubby class 31's to come from Bletchley even though there were 4 loco's in the freight yard as was at Rugby,we were told that as they were earmarked for freight jobs they couldn't and wouldn't be used to help,3 hours wasted. it was not long after that that an instruction went out that to clear a blocked line any loco WILL be used even if you have to uncouple it and sent it backwards wrong direction.
As far as I am concerned the sectorisation of the railways was the death of any kind of a railway in this country, the railway family was split up and all of the good will that went before seemed to disappear.
Lets look at another aspect of sectorisation POOLS what is that rubbish all about, before a depot had an allocation some loco's traveling far and wide, others not so far or not so wide but we knew where they should be and if you saw a foreigner it was a bonus, now what do we get XDUM pool allocation for XYZ traffic. I don't profess to understand this system and indeed do not wish to learn about it, there was nothing wrong with tops it worked.
It was the beginning of the end of the railway system and people got excited about it I wonder if they could have foreseen what would have happened the selling off cheaply of the freight companies the loosing of traffic to lorries and hauliers because the new system didn't work.
Sorry if I have gone on but the railway died when we painted 30 year old DMU's in new colours to make them seem more attractive instead of building more.
So in answer to your question in my case there is definitely no interest in colours as it ushered in a whole new era that I would like to forget. I look at some of the loco's painted in the new colours and think what a waste of paint, ask MTH about his Deltic even that is a bit too modern a livery for me, dare I say it Green or Blue or Black the only liveries I choose to remember
Ian
Sorry but the railways died when they painted the loco's in those dreadful liveries. It was a case of this is mine and you can't use it and to prove it we are going to paint it a different colour, this actually happened and I can prove it. In the late 1980's I was a Senior Conductor with Intercity brilliant job!, we came to grief on Rugby flyover just before the catch points, there was no IC loco available so our control asked Rugby freight if they could drag us into the station, the answer was a very resounding NO!!!!!!, we had to wait for 2 very grubby class 31's to come from Bletchley even though there were 4 loco's in the freight yard as was at Rugby,we were told that as they were earmarked for freight jobs they couldn't and wouldn't be used to help,3 hours wasted. it was not long after that that an instruction went out that to clear a blocked line any loco WILL be used even if you have to uncouple it and sent it backwards wrong direction.
As far as I am concerned the sectorisation of the railways was the death of any kind of a railway in this country, the railway family was split up and all of the good will that went before seemed to disappear.
Lets look at another aspect of sectorisation POOLS what is that rubbish all about, before a depot had an allocation some loco's traveling far and wide, others not so far or not so wide but we knew where they should be and if you saw a foreigner it was a bonus, now what do we get XDUM pool allocation for XYZ traffic. I don't profess to understand this system and indeed do not wish to learn about it, there was nothing wrong with tops it worked.
It was the beginning of the end of the railway system and people got excited about it I wonder if they could have foreseen what would have happened the selling off cheaply of the freight companies the loosing of traffic to lorries and hauliers because the new system didn't work.
Sorry if I have gone on but the railway died when we painted 30 year old DMU's in new colours to make them seem more attractive instead of building more.
So in answer to your question in my case there is definitely no interest in colours as it ushered in a whole new era that I would like to forget. I look at some of the loco's painted in the new colours and think what a waste of paint, ask MTH about his Deltic even that is a bit too modern a livery for me, dare I say it Green or Blue or Black the only liveries I choose to remember
Ian
Old Buffer
Western Thunderer
You have raised a question which is endless with the answers.
I was born in 1946 so I remember the modernisation era, the thrill of seeing the new classes of green diesels and electrics coming onto the scene, the different body stylings etc, the dismay of seeing steam loco's being run down and scrapped.
Regarding modelling.
There are some who model the historical aspect of railways, from the mid 1800's to about 1920ish, long before they were born. Others, like myself, sometimes model what they remember from the area they were brought up in. I was born in a Yorkshire mining village and was surrounded by villages with coal mines, the railway system was the South Yorkshire Joint, which meant I saw mainly ex LNER and ex LMS 6 coupled tender type loco's, occasionally 8 coupled including BR ex WD, and seldom BR 10 coupled, then along came the green class 20's and 25's and on occasion a 31. The only time I saw anything different was when I went spotting in other locations.
My latest project is planning to build a model of Spilsby station, which is now local to me, I never saw it in action so I am having to do the same as the historical men, relying on photo's and the relative historical books of the stations/areas.
There are a few young ones at one of the clubs I use who were born post 1980, they model what they remember and the present time period, but they also have steam era models. We have a few of the older men who model from the mid 50's to the present. Looking at the RTR market and some kit manufacturers, there are quite a lot of modern image modellers out there.
Alan
I was born in 1946 so I remember the modernisation era, the thrill of seeing the new classes of green diesels and electrics coming onto the scene, the different body stylings etc, the dismay of seeing steam loco's being run down and scrapped.
Regarding modelling.
There are some who model the historical aspect of railways, from the mid 1800's to about 1920ish, long before they were born. Others, like myself, sometimes model what they remember from the area they were brought up in. I was born in a Yorkshire mining village and was surrounded by villages with coal mines, the railway system was the South Yorkshire Joint, which meant I saw mainly ex LNER and ex LMS 6 coupled tender type loco's, occasionally 8 coupled including BR ex WD, and seldom BR 10 coupled, then along came the green class 20's and 25's and on occasion a 31. The only time I saw anything different was when I went spotting in other locations.
My latest project is planning to build a model of Spilsby station, which is now local to me, I never saw it in action so I am having to do the same as the historical men, relying on photo's and the relative historical books of the stations/areas.
There are a few young ones at one of the clubs I use who were born post 1980, they model what they remember and the present time period, but they also have steam era models. We have a few of the older men who model from the mid 50's to the present. Looking at the RTR market and some kit manufacturers, there are quite a lot of modern image modellers out there.
Alan
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Yep, I think that's a pretty fair assessment, but looking at the age of the majority of people attending Guildex a few weeks ago, that doesn't really come as a surprise.Jordan said:
There is some, but not a great deal. Model Express make a Cargowaggon, Skytrex have oil tanks and powder wagons, PRMRP make kits for some air braked BR wagons and a couple of private owner types. GJH do the Polybulk, and some more modern departmental types such as MTA's for the more modern modeller. Most wagons around in the 1970's and 80's lasted through to the early days of privatisation in one form or another.Jordan said:
Not necessarily, up until the demise of Speedlink in July 1991, short and interesting freights could still be seen, and there were some short departmental trains as well. Some sort of small terminal, along the lines of those at Mossend or Potter Group at Ely could be done quite cheerfully. How about a wagon works as a bit of a change? Modern DMU's (150/156/158 from Peter Clark) are all 2 car units, so often shorter than the 1st Gen units they replaced, and more modern units are rarely more than 4 cars, so no longer than a loco and 3 coaches, which I think would be an unusually short train in the 80's.Jordan said:
Kits, yes. Layouts, no, although Peter Clark's Layout (the name escapes me) does feature Sectorisation locos, and there is another layout I've seen that also features them (Hollybank Moonhill IIRC). It's definitely a minority sport though!Jordan said:
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
I agree with Ian that come the end of 'Large logo Blue' it was all over.
I built a GUV and finished it in Motorail livery and was told by none other than Pete Waterman (it was one of his kits) that it was too modern a livery - somebody said if I would repaint it in plain Blue he would buy it from me - so i did!
Answers your question Jordan.
cheers
Mike
I built a GUV and finished it in Motorail livery and was told by none other than Pete Waterman (it was one of his kits) that it was too modern a livery - somebody said if I would repaint it in plain Blue he would buy it from me - so i did!
Answers your question Jordan.
cheers
Mike
Pennine MC
Western Thunderer
Jordan said:
It might be tin hat time, but I'd suggest the reasons are tied up in similar considerations to those driving a particular MRJ editorial a few years back - those modelling the post-Sector railway are likely to be younger and have less-developed perceptions and skills. (Yes, I know it's a generalisation and there are some very significant exceptions). As long as this forum is predominantly about 'doing', rather than 'opening', I'd think it's likely to stay rooted in the 'traditional' era.
That said, I'd have nothing against a model of that era per se, as long as it was well-observed.
westernfan
Western Thunderer
i was amused by the southern trains livery totom and all a bit retro, but as for a Ginsters pastie pacer ,skipper what ever they are 
to be honest the uniform blue for me was naff those oil burners all looked the same gets coat
im stuck in the steam diesel transition period
to be honest the uniform blue for me was naff those oil burners all looked the same gets coat
im stuck in the steam diesel transition period
28ten
Guv'nor
I quite like some of the early sectorisation and even NSE, but that is probably because I was travelling a lot on the railway in 86-88, I'll wash my mouth out here and say class 50's Oxford - Paddington with MK1 and mk2 stock would really appeal to me. A Foster Yeomans 59 would be nice as well, oh and an old 117, not so sure about red lamposts etc 
ceejaydee
Western Thunderer
I liked the LoadHaul and Transrail liveries when they were full repaints as against brandings on existing paint schemes.
I finally lost all interest in the prototype when the Peaks/45's went from the Midland Mainline.
Had a slight revival in the mid noughties when work enabled me to spend some time near Rugby station.
Got quite a thing for the Freightliner 57s, DFS 37s and the remaining class 60s which I missed under BR ownership due to a lack of interest.
Quite sad when a 47 became a rare treat.
The lack of interest also saw me fairly oblivious to my (then) local branchline using 37s, 56s & 58s on a regular basis on freight traffic.
I finally lost all interest in the prototype when the Peaks/45's went from the Midland Mainline.
Had a slight revival in the mid noughties when work enabled me to spend some time near Rugby station.
Got quite a thing for the Freightliner 57s, DFS 37s and the remaining class 60s which I missed under BR ownership due to a lack of interest.
Quite sad when a 47 became a rare treat.
The lack of interest also saw me fairly oblivious to my (then) local branchline using 37s, 56s & 58s on a regular basis on freight traffic.
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
In O gauge I model steam diesel transition WR Ranelagh bridge will be my project.
In oo AC electrics sectorisation and then in HO current US outline.
Steam because it's my favourite although I never witnessed it being 31 but it's my dads memories and his stories that fired my interest.
Sectorisation was my spotting era, personally I find BR blue a bit boring. ( sorry) all though I can appreciate it it's not an era I would won't to model. :-[
US because the sheet size amazes me and every time I've visited the states I've seen some awesome ( yes hah ) scenes.
If I had the money a few O gauge electrics and diesels in large logo, railfreight and my favorites Intercity.
Castles kings warships and westerns are my pint of beer everytime.
In oo AC electrics sectorisation and then in HO current US outline.
Steam because it's my favourite although I never witnessed it being 31 but it's my dads memories and his stories that fired my interest.
Sectorisation was my spotting era, personally I find BR blue a bit boring. ( sorry) all though I can appreciate it it's not an era I would won't to model. :-[
US because the sheet size amazes me and every time I've visited the states I've seen some awesome ( yes hah ) scenes.
If I had the money a few O gauge electrics and diesels in large logo, railfreight and my favorites Intercity.
Castles kings warships and westerns are my pint of beer everytime.
Phill Dyson
Western Thunderer
I'm afraid my interest wained in the late 70's only to be rekindled in the late 90's, so the whole Sectorisation period passed me by :-[
lancer1027
Western Thunderer
No real interest from the mid 80's onwards. Large logo blue was a novelty at first but would rather see all over blue. As regards sector stuff, well that didnt interest me in the slightest.
Rob :wave:
Rob :wave:
Jordan said:I've been watching one of my 'bargain' DVDs that shows UK Railfreight services dating from the mid 1990's. By that time I'd lost all interest in the 'modern' British rail scene. I couldn't make head or tail of "Sectorisation" and the plethora of liveries, badges and codes it spawned.
watching the DVD now is quite a strange experience too; in the 90's some of the old faithful Classes were still about such as 31, 37 and 47, and there were newer types that post-dated my interest such as Class 60 that I'm amazed to realise are now withdrawn & scrapped themselves! Compared to American freight trains which I've got used to, British freights look not only short, but often puny- compare our Freightliner trains to US double-stacks, or Cargowagons to Autoracks for instance - bear in mind that the roof of a Class 66 only reaches up to the short hood (nose) of a US diesel.
The point of this waffle?? :vista: :-[
Well it occurred to me that although we have some fine [s:817bbwa6]debate[/s:817bbwa6] I mean banter about Green-v-Blue and so forth, there seems to be very little interest here in British Rail post-1980-ish, let alone the mess that was Sectorisation and the even worse Privatisation eras? Certainly little in the way of modelling. Our "world" stops at, I'd say, about 1982 or so; after which things like Class 58s and liveries other than our beloved Blue started coming along.
Is it due to our general age group on here, our memories of things; or had things gone so far down the pan on the Railways in the '90s that we really can't be bothered to model what there was..??!!??:scratch:
Discuss.....................
Well I don't know about on here but judging from the number of Class 58 & 60 kits we have sold over the years - there is quite a lot of interest, I'd say [I exclude Class 56 as they appeared in rail blue].
David Parkins,
Modern Motive Power
Old Buffer
Western Thunderer
If you look in Rail Express Modeller it's all modern stuff, mostly for oo and n gauges, very little in 0gauge, also including most of the adverts.
Went to Spalding club last night and on the oo test track there were a few rakes of modern stuff.
Alan
Went to Spalding club last night and on the oo test track there were a few rakes of modern stuff.
Alan