Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick, Squires definitely do then I got mine from them at a show last year.
Building 7mm Ian Kirk - Thompson and Gresley coach kits..
- Thread starter Scale7JB
- Start date
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Etches arrived on Friday, but I spent the evening successfully building a few up of the bogies for the Twin-Art to run on the S7 loop at the Thames Valley Meet on the saturday morning..
Unfortunately the test track didn't arrive due to damage whilst loading, though the Twin Art was on show and caused a lot of interest
Some pictures..
Unfortunately the test track didn't arrive due to damage whilst loading, though the Twin Art was on show and caused a lot of interest
Some pictures..
Attachments
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
They really look the business Jonathan 
, are they your own fold up hornblocks or Slaters?
And of course the next question is when will they be available to the wider audience?
, are they your own fold up hornblocks or Slaters? And of course the next question is when will they be available to the wider audience?
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob, the only part that isn't my own are the Hornblocks which are Slaters... I must admit I am very happy with how well they work. I was hoping to really prove them in public yesterday, but that will have to wait for this sunday at West Mersea... 
In terms of availability, there are errors in the sizing of the functional side frame. Graham very kindly lent me a spare JLTRT whitemetal bogie yesterday to have a good look at, and has sent me detailed drawings too, so a few adjustments, and they will be available.. Looking forward to it !! I shall let you know of availability of course..
JB.
In terms of availability, there are errors in the sizing of the functional side frame. Graham very kindly lent me a spare JLTRT whitemetal bogie yesterday to have a good look at, and has sent me detailed drawings too, so a few adjustments, and they will be available.. Looking forward to it !! I shall let you know of availability of course..
JB.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Robin,
Peter has provided Jonathan with a complete set of parts for a JLTRT Gresley bogie so that Jonathan can think through the use of his etch with the JLTRT w/m bogie solebars and transoms. My initial impression is that we can use the etch for our kits if we can remove the springs from the back of the w/m solebar and then thin the solebar. As the centre portion of the etch folds level with the top of the solebars then we will have to work out how to modify the w/m bolster to provide a bogie pivot surface - and thereby provide an incentive to avoid the potential for the retaining bolt wearing the hole in the w/m bolster.
regards, Graham
Peter has provided Jonathan with a complete set of parts for a JLTRT Gresley bogie so that Jonathan can think through the use of his etch with the JLTRT w/m bogie solebars and transoms. My initial impression is that we can use the etch for our kits if we can remove the springs from the back of the w/m solebar and then thin the solebar. As the centre portion of the etch folds level with the top of the solebars then we will have to work out how to modify the w/m bolster to provide a bogie pivot surface - and thereby provide an incentive to avoid the potential for the retaining bolt wearing the hole in the w/m bolster.
regards, Graham
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Jonathan, Thanks Graham, I look forward to further progress.
I have a couple of weeks of over Easter and I plan to make headway with the A3 so that the Gresleys can be next up.
I have a couple of weeks of over Easter and I plan to make headway with the A3 so that the Gresleys can be next up.
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Right, do you want the good news or the bad news ?
Good news first... I have worked out a way that I can make the etch work very well with the JLTRT bogie, including being able to use the whitemetal bolster and transomes from the kit, which is always nice when you can use all the parts from the kit, and also give plenty of weight to compress the springs to maintain the correct ride height... Simple..
Bad news............
Ermm... the distance between the centre lines of the axlebox cutouts in the JLTRT bogie side is too short by 0.8mm... Correct CL should be 59.5mm, but the JLTRT bogie CL is 58.8 (approx).
It's enough to make the the axleboxes look wrong in the cutouts if I were to keep the etch at the correct distance, bearing (no pun intended) in mind that the idea is to attach the axlebox castings to the sprung functional axlebox so that they will move with lumps and bumps in Pway. I may need to shorten the length of the etch... hmmm
What are your thoughts ? I think that shortening the etch is the way forward..
JB.
Good news first... I have worked out a way that I can make the etch work very well with the JLTRT bogie, including being able to use the whitemetal bolster and transomes from the kit, which is always nice when you can use all the parts from the kit, and also give plenty of weight to compress the springs to maintain the correct ride height... Simple..
Bad news............
Ermm... the distance between the centre lines of the axlebox cutouts in the JLTRT bogie side is too short by 0.8mm... Correct CL should be 59.5mm, but the JLTRT bogie CL is 58.8 (approx).
It's enough to make the the axleboxes look wrong in the cutouts if I were to keep the etch at the correct distance, bearing (no pun intended) in mind that the idea is to attach the axlebox castings to the sprung functional axlebox so that they will move with lumps and bumps in Pway. I may need to shorten the length of the etch... hmmm
What are your thoughts ? I think that shortening the etch is the way forward..
JB.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
JB,
You need your/ours
cosmetic side frames mate 
:scratch: :vista: 8)
Col.
I feel a pattern coming on :
You need your/ours
cosmetic side frames mate :scratch: :vista: 8)Col.
I feel a pattern coming on :
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
JB,
I don't know a lot about these coaches, but to me the twin art set looks the buisness and your etch, albeit with teething problems looks very promising as well. A great cost effective way to springing
I know that doesn't help much but i'm watching with interest
ATB Mick
I don't know a lot about these coaches, but to me the twin art set looks the buisness and your etch, albeit with teething problems looks very promising as well. A great cost effective way to springing
I know that doesn't help much but i'm watching with interest
ATB Mick
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
"Can anyone tell me if there were different lengths of solebars with the 8'6" bogies?
I'm becoming a little confused.. Weren't the lightweight and heavyweight bogies same length of solebar ?"
JB,
I'm a bit confused by your question mate :scratch:, the sole bar is the side of the coach chassis, not part of the bogie. The difference, I believe, between lightweight and heavywieght bogies is in the frame depth and other factors ( springs, etc ) on the bogies.
Did you get the files I emailed you mate, I have some more info on Gresley bogies if you need it.
Col.
I'm becoming a little confused.. Weren't the lightweight and heavyweight bogies same length of solebar ?"
JB,
I'm a bit confused by your question mate :scratch:, the sole bar is the side of the coach chassis, not part of the bogie. The difference, I believe, between lightweight and heavywieght bogies is in the frame depth and other factors ( springs, etc ) on the bogies.
Did you get the files I emailed you mate, I have some more info on Gresley bogies if you need it.
Col.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
eastsidepilot said:
Guys, the question of "solebar" in connection with bogies may be down to something I have said or written elsewhere. On the LNER Forum and on RM Web I started some threads and topic relating to the underframes and bogies of Gresley "standard" 61' 6" carriages. "Solebar" got used in connection with the bogies at some point in the discussions and I have continued in the same light.
Colin - I am intrigued by your reference to "more info on Gresley bogies", please tell!
regards, Graham
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Scale7JB said:
Hi Jonathan,
When Peter and I started with Gresley teaks from JLTRT neither of us knew anything of the prototypes as the real interest here is a mix of FoD and GW&GC Jt (one day... West Wycombe will re-open
). So we accepted the JLTRT bogies as is whilst we concentrated on the sad saga of the positioning of vac. cyls., battery boxes and similar stuff under the underframe and the bolt / rivet details on the solebars 
. I had no technical details of the standard bogie with which to assess the JLTRT offering.Given what you have said about the bogie wheelbase and width I think that I shall ask Mike Trice for his advice on the most likely dimensions and source of drawing (for the standard bogie, you have the heavyweight drawing).
If the JLTRT bogie is too narrow then that bodes well for using the w/m sides with your etch frames. I noted your comment on the bogie wheelbase of the w/m side and, unless someone is up for making a new pattern for the sideframe, springs and spring hanger pads, I think that I shall have to accept where we are or go for the Newbolds Models version.
Apart from the question of sideframe length (Kirk and JLTRT are different), what other dimensions are in question?
What do you intend to do in respect of brakegear? (if you need an incentive, Rob and I are working on etches and machined part to enable us to have working handbrakes for our BTKs).
I recollect that you have come to a conclusion as to how to use the JLTRT bolster with your etch - when will you be able to share the approach?
regards, Graham
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Scale7JB said:
Hi Jonathan,
I have provided you with an LNER official drawing of the Gresley heavy compound bolster bogie so you can use that for measurements for the D167 heavy bogies.
I have asked Mike Trice for his thoughts on any variation in length / width of the compound bogie frames and he has replied... to quote:-
"For the 8'6" standard: 13' 9 3/8" over headstocks x 7'8" width over flanges. 7'2" between solebars"
Now you can tell us all how the JLTRT and Kirk bogie parts compare with the above. Hopefully, as and when Richard Lambert reads this he will give a verdict on how the Sidelines kit for the Gresley bogie compares witrh the dimensions.
BTW - for those amongst us who wish to Quibble and Cuss (with acknowledgements to Madder Valley), you may see that Mike uses the term "solebar" for the bogie sideframes. Nuff said.
regards, Graham
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Will get back to you about this A.S.A.P Graham..
Up at West Mersea yesterday, and the coaches ran very nicely indeed... A couple of shots, plus a video showing running of sold bogies vs sprung over a rough(ish) track joint. Notice how the carriages wobble and vibrate over the joint... A definite proof of concept I think.
Up at West Mersea yesterday, and the coaches ran very nicely indeed... A couple of shots, plus a video showing running of sold bogies vs sprung over a rough(ish) track joint. Notice how the carriages wobble and vibrate over the joint... A definite proof of concept I think.
