Building an Ace Kits "K"

[oldravendale]

Reviewing this thread I find that I said, in August last year, "I'm guessing that this build will take at least a year." Well, the tender's getting there.

Today was fixing the coal rails and beading day. Here's the results so far.



Inevitably more issues with which to deal.

Firstly the design of the coal rails is such that the back forms a right angle with the sides. We know that the back of the tender was the wrong profile, and so are the coal rails. As shown previously the infills for the sides were also too narrow and too short. These have been replaced and the ends of the etch for the back had the ends radiused, as were the ends of the infill pieces. This gave nice radiused corners to the coal rails with the join between the sides and backs within the radius.

Within the kit there are no fixings for these coal rails. Having looked at the drawings there appear to be some stanchions so I have recreated these and these are what fits the infilled coal rails to the tender top. These were made out of 1mm "T" section and fitted to the coal rails using 179 degree solder.

The beading was made as described previously using straightened 1mm copper wire. I fitted the beading to the coal rails after the stanchions using 100 degree solder.

Once the coal rails were a complete sub unit I soldered this to the tender body using the stanchions and 179 degree solder paste and a resistance soldering unit.

Then came fitting the beading around the top of the tender flares. This was done again using 100 degree solder, with a resistance soldering unit. The major issue here was to avoid melting the tender corner flares, and I managed this by the tried and tested means of holding a pad of wet bog roll over the corner. Fortunately it worked.

Here again is a load more work than appears necessary because of the short comings of the kit. I used the coal rails and the back etch (even this had to be filed down for height). The infill sections had to be replaced as those supplied were inadequate. Then I had to make the stanchions and the beading. Of the four pieces in the kit two were replaced, so what should have been a four piece assembly turned out to be 19 parts.

Oh happy days! (And I still think we're mad).

Next is, I think, to fit the white metal parts, tender interior detail and footsteps. I'll not fit the brake parts until I've decided what to do about the brake cylinders etc. The more time I spend on this the less I'm inclined to go to great lengths in fitting parts which will, at the end of the day, be unseen.

I've already discovered that there are no buffers in the kit. As there is no list of parts it's difficult to establish whether these should be present or not - also some people who have this kit say that there's more than one type of dome included, but I only have a single one. However there are two chimneys, and some say there is only one in their kit.

Once again, in pretty well every respect this kit is lacking.

Brian

 

[Nick Dunhill]

Hi Brian
I have been here too. I can never decide whether to ditch the kit and scratch build, using the kit parts as a guideline, or whether to persevere and fix the kit's faults. I think it is probably nett slightly less work to fix the kit parts. On the other hand it is hard to get a good finish, for instance, sorting out the crap tender corners and flares (you have done an admiral job) and one is left thinking it would have been easier to make new ones.

The worst part though is that it sucks the fun out of building the model. All your energy is sapped dealing with nonsense, leaving little for the nice bits, like the thorough job you have done researching cab doors and building them.

When you finish the thing though you will be left with the satisfaction of building something against the odds. I built his Hush-Hush kit and in the end only used the cab window surround and other buts of beading. The rest I weighed-in and bought a chip butty with the money.

Nick

 

[oldravendale]

Hi Nick.

Perversely I'm getting a deal of satisfaction out of finding the problems (not difficult!) and putting them right. I've seen this kit built and on the Ace stand. It captures the look of the prototype, but it could not have been built straight out of the box, so I'll have a look next time I see Mr Ascough and discover what he's done to overcome the various issues. Right now I don't have the confidence to build a whole loco from scratch, and in fairness the basic dimensions so far have been OK so it's made sense to use most of the parts, albeit probably hacked around a bit. As you may heave noted earlier in this thread I've taken some sage advice from WT on board and, as many do, obtained lost wax castings from Laurie G and others where ever possible. Much of the white metal will end up in the recycling box, although the tender springs are actually very good.

The frustrating thing is that this kit could be made in to a really good example of what a kit should be. The errors are unforgivable, though, as it's not possible to rely on even the tabs and slots as reference points.

I hope that the tender will be far enough advanced to bring it to Reading for anyone who may be interested in seeing why not to buy an original Ace kit in future. As Steph has said elsewhere, however, Mr A now has a number of kits originated from reputable stables which will build well. I guess the maxim is approach with care and check the origin.

Brian

 

[Nick Dunhill]

Indeed.

 

[oldravendale]

It's difficult for me to believe that it's almost a month since my last post on the subject of the "K". However, things have not stood still. Rather it's a question of another step or two backwards in order to get the next step forwards.

At Reading I met up with Roger Scanlon and John Birch who supplied me with a large scale GA of the tender. The 7mm drawing is great for matching up parts size for size, but it's difficult to read for details. The larger drawing gave me some pause for thought as it showed that some more changes were needed.



The above shots are of the tender top as it appeared immediately before Reading. This was built approximating to the instructions, such as they are which accommodates a single toolbox on the left side. You may note that there's a well for the toolbox on the front left hand side, but none on the right. No toolbox is provided. Also the protective platework on the left hand size does a right angle return and that on the right does not return at all.

Studying the larger drawing shows that there should be a well for toolboxes on both sides and that there's an inspection hatch on the left hand side. The top of the tender front should return towards the coal space. The platework on the left should return towards the tender top via an obtuse angle which avoids the inspection hatch. The platework on the right should return via a right angle and thus form the fire iron tunnel.

So it all had to come off and start again.

Rather than try to form a well for the toolbox on the right hand side I decided to fill the one on the left so that I could make up two identical tool boxes. The depth or rather lack of it will be hidden by the new platework. I laid a narrow strip of brass over the top of the tender front to form the return having filed the tender front down as far as the tender coal space top.


I bought a pair of toolboxes from Laurie Griffin, actually of a GNR type but they are the correct size. The one above on the right has had all the detail removed and the lid flattened off to match the drawing.

As they stand above these are too tall so were cut down, new handles and hinges fitted together with closure hasps. I was going to solder on some hinge joints and a hasp hinge, but decided that this was getting altogether stupid as these parts will hardly be seen. At this point I recognised that the entire process was, in fact, pretty stupid as so little of the original boxes remained and I could have made them more easily out of Plasticard, but by now it was too late.



Above are the tool boxes as they ended up. In the foreground is the first inspection cover I made, but this was altogether the wrong shape so was remade, as will be seen below.


And this is the replacement.



Here's the new left and right platework in place with the correct returns, together with the new inspection plate fitted.



The new toolboxes are fitted as well in this shot. Regrettably the sides of the tender coal space are, unsurprisingly, not of identical width. In the original configuration this did not matter overmuch, but with the rebuilt top I've had to fudge the width of the tool boxes. I hope this does not show.

I've drilled a hole in approximately the correct position for the fire iron post. This will be made from hard brass wire but won't be fitted until one of the last jobs as it's rather prone to damage. Again, no guidance in the instructions. In fact the tool boxes are a little bit too forward but the options for placement are limited by the presence of the stanchions to hold the tender flares in place. I also stole a little bit of length from the boxes. It also seems to be possible that the platework is too tall for the later years but judging by the photos of the tender tops, which are about as rare as hen's teeth, this may not be the case so I've chosen to leave them at full height.

So it's been a couple of steps back, and a couple of steps forward to repair the errors. In fact, no distance forward at all!

Next is to fit the footsteps, which are already bent to shape. More worryingly I have to fit the buffers in to holes in the buffer beam which are far too large. I'm still working out how to do that accurately, but clearly the etched holes will have to be plated over on the inside and holes of the correct size drilled out.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

More worryingly I have to fit the buffers in to holes in the buffer beam which are far too large. I'm still working out how to do that accurately, but clearly the etched holes will have to be plated over on the inside and holes of the correct size drilled out.

Couldn't you sleeve the buffer case mounting with tube rather than install a false back and re-drill the holes?

Or are the existing holes larger than the buffer casing.....

 

[oldravendale]

That's a good thought David. The existing holes are marginal as to whether they are larger the buffer casing or not, but if I have enough tubes of different sizes to build up the casing it might just work. I'll have a look tomorrow if I can grab some time.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

I checked my stock of metal but couldn't find anything which is a tight enough fit, externally within the buffer beam or internally over the buffer mounting, even if I used two or three different tube sizes within one another. In fact I'd rather have to turn something down a little (that's a bit pretentious - what it means is putting the tube in the drill chuck and applying a file as the piece rotates or open it up - I have a good selection of taps which will work as I've done this many times before and allow the bore to be opened gradually to get a tight fit, with lots of lubrication, of course. I find that beeswax works well for me.

The holes in the buffer beam are 6mm, and the mounting for the buffers is 3mm. I found some suitable tubing on ebay but will have to step this down by using 6mm x 4mm and then 4mm x 3mm. Doubtless this will not arrive until after Christmas, but in the meantime I'll have a play with the brake gear and rather lovely Westinghouse cylinder bought from Laurie Griffin (not that you'll see it once the steps are in place, but I'll know it's there).

Brian

 

[Eastsidepilot]

The holes in the buffer beam are 6mm, and the mounting for the buffers is 3mm.

Brian

Brian, would it not be easier to just cut a new buffer plate ?

Col.

 

[oldravendale]

Brian, would it not be easier to just cut a new buffer plate ?

Col.

Absolutely correct, Col. Trouble is that I didn't think of it at the time! And now I have the tube on order......

However, I suppose I ought to check that the holes are actually symmetrical. Based on past experience that may just be a wish too far.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

However, I suppose I ought to check that the holes are actually symmetrical. Based on past experience that may just be a wish too far.

Can'y make a silk purse from a sows ear, but I think your getting there

Col.

 

[oldravendale]

....and I've now checked. The holes in the buffer beam are symmetrical vertically and horizontally - well, within 0.4 mm of being so, side to side - which is probably as accurate as I'd be when marking out and drilling new ones. In fact I may just be able to nudge one of them over a bit when I fit the tube which may make them well nigh perfect. That's three words I doubt you'll see strung together very often during the course of this build.

 

[oldravendale]

A very quick update.

The tubes in to which the buffer housings will fit arrived today. The larger, 6mm one is just too big to fit the hole in the buffer beam, which is perfect as I can either reduce the diameter of the tube by a gnat's crotchet or enlarge the hole by a similar amount, the smaller tube is almost an interference fit in the larger which is perfect and allows no margin for error although it is definitely not a sliding fit, just in case that's what you want (and it was not sold as such), and the smaller tube doesn't quite fit over the buffer housing.

The ebay site from which I bought these is Brass tube tubes pipe for model making in 60 metric sizes, 1-18mm diameter

The man is Jeremy Lewis, known as motionquality, and his service and communication have been exceptional.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Today is my first day back in the workshop since before Christmas. The event itself, and our impending move, have intervened. More about the move later.

Today I made use of the tube I purchased before Christmas. Good stuff it is, too. It cuts easily and is a joy to work. I opened up the two tubes by a trice, just to ensure that one fits within the other and the buffer body fits within the smaller tube.



Small, approx 2mm, lengths of tube were cut from each.



These are soldered in place over the buffer casting. The fit is so good that they stayed in place without solder, although solder was added as a belt and braces measure. The pins are to fit as representative of the bolts holding the buffers in place.



The buffers are now soldered in place and the shortened pins have been fitted too. All in all a satisfactory if fiddly afternoon.

And now the sad bit!!

Our house move is to a smaller property which means I'll lose my workshop. These photos may help to explain my distress as the prospect.



I truly understand how fortunate I've been for the last eleven years or so. All my reference books, storage and even the kitchen sink are immediately available. I've a week or two of modelling yet, before I have to shut everything down, and have plans to build a new workshop at the new abode, but I'll be without facilities for at least a couple of months.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Sorry to relate I'm still not spending as much time in the workshop as I would like. However, as I had the camera out for other purposes I'll take the opportunity to update the latest "improvements".



It was apparent from the drawings that not only was the hole for the strange post thing in front of the tender filler (I think Steph said it was something to do with a water pre-heater) too large but it was in the wrong place, clearly being offset from the centre line. The casting is actually the wrong shape as well but nothing which can't be corrected. Even though this was not in use at the time of my loco it is clear from photos that many, if not most, of the "K"s retained this. Some photos of certain locos suggest that it may have been removed but anything I have of 32337 suggests it was probably still there right up to withdrawal. A new hole was drilled in the correct position and the above is a dry run with the water filler in position too. It'll be soldered in place as one of the final parts of the build as it's high and somewhat vulnerable while I'm still hacking the tender about.



In one of my early posts I mentioned that the brake shoes as designed are simply not thick enough. Following a suggestion a while ago, I seem to remember from Heather, I've beefed them up with Plasticard which has the benefit of providing an insulated surface against any potential wheel contact. Above the right hand set of brake shoes have been trimmed - the others have the blanks attached but in their untrimmed state.



Here are the brake components to go with the Roxey lost wax Westinghouse brake cylinder. This is actually slightly the wrong shape but hidden between the frames will look the part, I think. This fits just in front of the front tender axle, offset to the left. It will probably just be visible. It activates the brakes via the rocking arms and the coupling cover plate will be modified to create the triangular section which drives the brake rods. Neither the rocking arms nor the coupling plate are provided in the kit so these came from the spares box. They may well need further modification to fit accurately. I'll sandwich the coupling cover plate between the rocking arms to create a fork which will go either side of the tab on the brake cylinder. This'll be easier understood when I photograph it in situ.

I spent some considerable time deciding whether this was worth the effort, but ultimately decided that this may be visible from certain viewpoints, in much the same way that the water pick up apparatus on locos from other regions can be seen, and we'd not dream of omitting water pick up apparatus, would we? However, the reservoir cylinder is well hidden and I'll not be including this in the build as it is only seen with the tender upside down, and I don't intend it to run (very often) in that configuration.


Finally in this set of pictures another problem to overcome. This is the brake shaft located in the outside bearings and it clearly fouls the wheel flanges. Maybe it wouldn't if the wheels were S7 as clearances are very tight as shown on the drawing. However (and there's always a however with this kit) the wheels are those recommended in the instructions at 3ft 9in and prototypically they should be 4ft, so with 4ft wheels the brake shaft would foul the them anyway.

I therefore need to bodge.

I will fit the shafts through the bearings but cut them off adjacent to the wheel flanges, and then (hopefully) create the optical illusion that the shaft continues by attaching the inside shaft to the brake assembly. Again, easier shown (when complete) than described.

I'm hoping that I might get in to the workshop for a couple of hours this afternoon.

Brian

 

[Steph Dale]

So the brake bracket is in the wrong place then. You could seperate it and position it where it should be, the photos you posted in Building an Ace Kits "K" | Page 6 | Western Thunder would probably give the right idea.

Oh, and that spring hanger needs fixing properly

Steph

 

[Scale7JB]

Brian - I FEEL YOUR PAIN - with regard to having to shut the workbench down...

If it's any consolation, it'll be a few years yet before I get anything back resembling a workbench..

JB.

 

[oldravendale]

So the brake bracket is in the wrong place then. You could seperate it and position it where it should be, the photos you posted in Building an Ace Kits "K" | Page 6 | Western Thunder would probably give the right idea.

Oh, and that spring hanger needs fixing properly

Steph

You are quite right. The brake bracket needs moving forward a trice. The difficulty with separating it is that, to move it forward, I'll have to find a way of building the outside frames outwards, towards the tender front. This makes the profile of the tender side look wrong and (I think) can only be achieved by soldering in a backing plate to which the shaped modified bracket and frame can be fitted. I'll have a look this afternoon but, on the whole, I think my approach will work from most viewing angles. It's not ideal and possibly the biggest bodge so far.

Brian - I FEEL YOUR PAIN - with regard to having to shut the workbench down...

If it's any consolation, it'll be a few years yet before I get anything back resembling a workbench..

JB.

This is, indeed, a concern, JB. However, the domestic authorities have my new workshop at the very top of the list of priorities so I'm hopeful that it may be completed by the summer. Of course, with all the other work to be done in the house, there remains the question about how much time I'll have to spend in it!

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

So...... I've just spent the afternoon in the workshop trying to bodge the brake fittings as described. It doesn't work!

So Steph was right! I hate it when that happens.

I'd already established that the brake bracket on the etch is too far back. In fact the bracket lines up, vertically, with the front brake hanger on the model. The original drawings show it a couple of mm forward. I decided to try bending some 2 mm nickel silver strip to match the frame profile. I experimented just before I came in tonight and was able to bend this strip, in the flat, to match the profile I need. I'll patch in a supporting strip behind the frames on to which I can lay in the but joined strip. The only problem is that the white metal springs and brake hangers are adjacent to the area on which I have to work so I'll have to be exceptionally careful when fitting the frame extensions.

It's doubtful that I'll get in to the workshop tomorrow - we have a celebration in the village following our success in dismissing a huge planning appeal - but I'll hope to catch up on Sunday.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Here's the process I've used to set up the brakes and reposition the brake brackets.



Initially I fitted the Westinghouse brake cylinder. The various bits of wire and brackets surrounding it are the initial and unsuccessful attempt to bodge the brake set up, as are the wire stubs shown soldered to the frame brake brackets.



Based on the drawings I knew I needed to move the brake brackets forward by 2mm. My best option was to build out the outside frame in that area by 2mm. I used a piece of nickel silver strip, 2mm wide and the same thickness as the frames - approx 0.5mm. This was bent to match the frame profile.



The strip was then trimmed to match the profile of the frame. Here the strip is clipped behind the frame for marking out.



Here the strip has been (almost) shaped - the clamp is of insufficient strength to hold the strip tightly. After this shot the brackets themselves were removed and the frames filed flat. The rivets were squashed flat and this area was then filed and sanded flat.



Here's the fill in piece soldered in place with the bracket moved and soldered to it. The fillet was subsequently filed to fare it in to the existing frame. The fillet was but joined and the bracket was fixed to a backing piece. The location of the brake brackets is perfect with reference to the axle boxes although the frame shape is a bit compromised in this area. Nevertheless the position now allows the brake rodding to be fitted following the prototype.

The removed rivets will need replacing. I'll do this using Archer rivets. The other item to complete to finalise the process will be to fill the few lumps and bumps - and gaps - which remain. However, the photos show the defects to a much greater extent than is visible by eye.

So, the moral of this story is to not bodge and go for what appears to be the most difficult route to start with. And to listen to your youngers and betters.

I've made my decision about how to deal with the problem and carried it out. However, I'll be interested to learn how others would have tackled the problem - short of cutting out new frames which for me was not a realistic option as it would have meant deconstructing most of the assembly.

I'm now on the home run. Brake and steam pipes to fit together with the tarpaulin hooks. Lamp irons and fire iron mount to go on. There are a couple of handles which operate through the coal space - Steph told me what they're for but I've forgotten. Anyway they are not in the kit so will have to be built from scratch. Brake gear is now ready to go on and then it's a few white metal fittings to complete.

THEN TO START THE LOCO!!!

Brian