Building an MMP RMB - a box of delights

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
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Well, this is as far as I've got today. The inner ends are now attached to the roof as the instructions intended. With gentle persuasion, it's almost possible to get all the gutter tags to slide into the gap between inner and outer shell. I'll be honest and say I really wouldn't want to try and do that with paint and glazing done. The magnet brace strips under the roof add a good degree of rigidity to the thing, but I'm stymied by magnets not being strong enough to bring the middle of the roof down. If I could get the bowing middle to stay down, the roof would fit like a charm.

It's annoying to be defeated when I'm very close to success, but I'm not giving up entirely. I shall see what Kettering may offer as far as stronger magnets are concerned, I want to look at steel or tinplate attachment points, and I have a backup plan that uses another roof entirely. The issue with that idea will be how it gets fixed to the body at all, but by hook or by crook this bl**dy coach will be finished to my satisfaction before this decade is out!
 

Trebor54

Member
Was actually looking at a coach worth of rare earth bar magnets - very(!!) strong. I can drop them off at Kettering if you fancy playing with them.

Bob
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Was actually looking at a coach worth of rare earth bar magnets - very(!!) strong. I can drop them off at Kettering if you fancy playing with them.

Bob

If you don't mind, it's always worth having a selection around. You'll probably recognise me before I do you!
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Okay, I've had to give up on the idea of magnets. The bracing struts I installed were too far apart, and using too powerful a magnet may have risked deforming structures (more than already deformed!).

So, the patent Kavanagh Think Cap came into play.

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I reckon that works. It's 1mm hard drawn brass wire, soldered to one of the thick roof braces and passed through the floor of the coach. With some gentle persuasion, I can clamp the wire (I will probably solder it later) and the banana roof settles down pretty nicely.

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I will need to reinstate the body braces to keep the cant rail width constant. I've been fretting about this for too bl**dy long, so having proved it works I feel I can proceed. Mr Carr will be pleased! :thumbs:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Today was a day to fettle some more.

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The first thing I tackled was to install the only handrails across windows in this coach. Four very tiny brackets were glued into very tiny slots, after first running a fine taper broach through the holes to avoid pain and anguish later when passing home the handrail wire. A long overdue appearance of the Highly Trained Penny helps to illustrate the tiny brackets. The kind Mr P includes spares, which was handy. As you can see, I've had to use five as one went into orbit.

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Nickel silver wire in place. Rather than risk dislodging the tiny brackets, I've elected to leave the wire slightly over length. It won't really be noticeable in the end, and it's the exterior effect we are looking for.

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As a little light relief I cut out and folded up the lights which sit above each window. I also considered the luggage rack parts, but I think they will be best left until I'm ready to install them. I did a quick tot up, and I reckon there are roughly twenty parts to fit around each window. That should keep me quiet.

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The roofing solution meant I could consider committing the interior again, so after some tidying up and applying some Casey Blue around the inside edges of all the window apertures, I stuck the braces back in across the body. The next stage should really be getting the body primed and even perhaps painted, but I need to get some more Evergreen strip of the right size in to replace the corrosion strips I damaged and dislodged. While I was in sorting out mode I reattached the gangway I had knocked off some years ago, and fettled the other one to make it tidier.

The plan, then, is to repair the corrosion strips, then use some styrene sheet slipped between the inner and outer shells as masking (probably wet tissue and masking tape for the hole in the top!) and get the body primed and painted. Once that's done, the inner shell can be tidied with some contact adhesive to hold it to the outer, and I can install the interior details. While that's going on I may be able to detail the roof. Glazing, mate roof to body, fit body to underframe, mild weathering and delivery.

Blimey! Sounds easy, doesn't it!
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I do hope so, Richard!

I forgot to pose a question: pull down blinds. Were they taken out of refurbished coaches in the 1970s?
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Heather,

If you are making one (of the two) saloons a non-smoking saloon, what does the kit offer for the BR tip-up ash trays which were fitted under the window ledge and either side of the table?
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
Looks great Heather and very glad you have sorted the roof problem. Boy, do I know about the tiny parts, glad to know others also resort to glue.

Ken
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Heather

I suspect they were removed but all that really means is that I do not know for certain.

We need Bob, where is he ?

Richard
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Heh! I know what you mean.

I've decided to devote much of the remainder of this week to moving this build on. With the bit firmly between my teeth, I decided to attack the roof details.

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First, for Graham's benefit, here are two ashtray/table brackets, one in naked form, one folded up.

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I like busy roofs on coaches. Like underframes they make trains come alive to me. The rectangular roof fans over the buffet circulating area consist of five etched parts and one casting. Four of the etched parts are folded in some fashion. The smaller vent on the right is folded from flat. Like a dope I managed to trim off the locating tabs, so I had to carefully solder the central part in place. It ain't comin' off again in a hurry! The roof detail castings bag contained three of the circular castings, plus three of a variant with some bracketry round them. I can only find evidence - and one locating hole - for the plain type.

I still have to fit the ventilator hoops. Eleven NS etched parts to trim out and form into a curve. I'm leaving that for now.

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Fine NS rain strips, waiting for me to pluck up courage to attempt bending them to shape. These are the longest ones, at the lavatory end of the roof. After this, I shall consider all the pipe brackets, and whether to make an assembly off the roof that can be fitted once the roof is attached. The reason is all the pipework runs over the ends and into the various brackets on the ends of the body. At the moment I can't think whether there is a convenient place to split the wires to let me add the handrail/pipe parts on the ends after the roof and painting stages.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
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Vent loops done. And here's how I did it. Each etched bar has little tags on each end, which fit into corresponding slots in the roof either side of the cast vent. I stuck a vernier across the slots to work out the diameter of the loop, and then chose a suitable drill. I stuck that, business end first, into my vice (with soft jaws), leaving the shank so I could manipulate the etched part round it. A little tweaking with round nose pliers, and the formed loop could be clipped in place and secured with a drop of cyano.

Of course, the Law of Sod tells us I would perfect the forming process by the time I got to the last loop.

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The end rain strips were successfully folded without learning new swear words. Watch for those little tags at the ends, designed to fit into slots in the roof. Don't trim them off, like I did on one end before I remembered. I don't think the strips should have the visible slots along their bottom edges, so a wipe of glue or filler will go on before painting begins. I guess, with extra care and teeny tiny fingers the folds could be done to minimise the gaps, but out of four attempts I couldn't managed it.

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The mid-point strips have also been fitted. Now, the kit roof is etched so both strips have the same relative orientation. This is correct according to the sketch plan in the Parkin book supplement, so I have gone with it. Reference photos of preserved RMBs seem to show the strips may have been angled so the higher end was away from the lavatory end (or the other way round), but without opposite side views of the same vehicle in my stash I can't confirm, so the kit fitting is what it is.

While I was checking strip orientations I decided to swap out the domed fan casting for the type with the shield. I think this better suits the later refurbished vehicles.

Barring the filler pipe runs, I am content to leave the roof now.

The roof attachment solution was to be wire rod, soldered under the floor once the roof was pulled down. On reflection, I have decided to try and source some 8 or 10BA threaded brass rod for this job, and use a bolt under the floor. Hopefully, Metalsmiths might have something at Reading on Saturday.

Meanwhile, I need to check whether refurb RMBs still had destination board clips in the 1980s. I suspect they didn't, so the etched slots will need to be filled on the body.

Foot boards on the underframe now need thinking about.
 

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
water deflection/rainstrips - go with the way David intended the kit to be built Heather - on all bar 1801-1812 s which are a totally different diagram & beast - looking down on the roof from the the passenger side of the buffet counter the strip nearest you points up towards the toilet end, and on the opposite side, down towards the toilet end (see attached file) so you are spot on.

Destination board brackets - we were removing them from the mid 70s - they played havoc with washplant brush life! Most of the RMB's seem to have been done by the early 80s though certainly not all of them... If it was my choice I'd go with removing them / leaving them off unless you've a photo of the specific vehicle your building at an appropriate date.

Roller Blinds - we didn't remove them as a matter of course during heavy repair / refurb and in general they were repaired / replaced.... That said bear in mind when the blinds are up you would only see the last 30mm or so of the tabs attached to the bottom of them hanging down below the top of the widow frame - if you could see them at all.

Good to see the horizon on this one heather....!
 

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Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
I meant to add - a couple of small detail points - on the kit there's a heater control between each seating bay - in reality there were perhaps only two per saloon, not all the heaters being manually controlled, in general they were near the end partitions. Lastly, the use of mirrors in the saloons - didn't happen in BR days - the mirrors were confined to the toilets along with those awful green or cream soap bars. (p.s. word on the street is that a certain Mr Beare is adding Towelmasters to his Mk1's and maxpax dispensers in the RMB's...)
 
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