1/32 Devoran Quay

[Jordan]

Embryo G1 Garden line

yesterday saw a rare bit of G1 retail therapy, ... its second hand
Either way its a chunky little beast and I'm really pleased with it

... Nothing wrong with second-hand... if anything I prefer it as I don't feel quite so guilty doing repaints, detailing and weathering on stuff I've not paid RRP for..

How come it's back-to-back is out?

 

[Phill Dyson]

Embryo G1 Garden line

[quote=""Phill Dyson"":387sopzh]mmmm..........Gauge One .............maybe one day (pull yourself together Dyson, you can't really afford O gauge :laugh: )
Phill :wave:

:lol: :lol: Let's see how long you last if someone does a G1 Western.... :scratch: [/quote:387sopzh]
My dodgy O gauge Wezzy is available in Gauge One , It's the rake of 10 MK1's behind it that scares me ???? :shock: :laugh:
Phill :wave:

 

[Jordan]

Embryo G1 Garden line

My dodgy O gauge Wezzy is available in Gauge One, It's the rake of 10 MK1's behind it that scares me!!

Ah, yes... I see what you mean...

 

[Simon]

Embryo G1 Garden line

mmmm..........Gauge One ............maybe one day (pull yourself together Dyson, you can't really afford O gauge :laugh)
Phill :wave

I'm very happy doing G1 and the whole garden railway thing is something I have been dreaming about for 40 odd years. Having said that in many ways it is really the utterly practical potential of live steam that "sold" me on G1. I have an Aster "Thunderbolt" and aspire to build my own steam engine one day, that's sort of what all my pre grouping S&D stuff is "aimed at" - ah well, we can all dream...

But leaving aside the question of cost, it is a horribly big scale in which to work and this does throw up quite a lot of challenges. If it weren't for having been invited up to see Rob Mabbett and Steve Harrod's work (which completely blew my mind) and then meeting Fred Phipps I may very well have opted for 7mm scale just the same. If I'd come across your layout Phill then I would have been really struggling not to have gone 7mm.

Take your brilliant van train creation. I was drooling over your pictures (again) the other day and thinking about how knee tremblingly fantastic it would be to create a similar sized train in G1, but then I had a reality check and realised that I will be looking at short trains for quite a while to come yet. Mind you, I will be able to muster quite a long train of lowfits, but unfortunately the diagram I have modelled was a definite minority.



Thinks, had better work out how to cast big hollow boxes in resin instead of just relatively flat things :scratch:

Either way I am finding being around this place a really motivating experience, thanks to all and long may it continue.

Simon

 

[lancer1027]

Embryo G1 Garden line

Hi Simon, is Fred Phipps thinking of doing a western in G1. Now that would be good

 

[28ten]

Embryo G1 Garden line

Moved to layouts

Mmmmm a 1/32 Western

 

[Phill Dyson]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I have cast another section of track bed this afternoon, I'll spare you the pictures of more stones and concrete


Simon

Hi Simon , I like to see pics of your progress, It's all interesting stuff , is there any particular reason for opting for the stainless track you are using rather than Peco Streamline Nickel Silver ?
Phill :wave:

 

[Simon]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I have cast another section of track bed this afternoon, I'll spare you the pictures of more stones and concrete...

Simon

Hi Simon, I like to see pics of your progress, It's all interesting stuff , is there any particular reason for opting for the stainless track you are using rather than Peco Streamline Nickel Silver ?

Phill

Well the last cast came out quite well, I think I might be getting a bit better at the old tamping with a bit of wood routine but I will never make a plasterer. Harry captured some short sighted balding and tubby old duffer trying to connect up a bit of track on the new bit this morning - man can he take a flattering photograph. Mind you, there's no excuse for those shoes: oops:



Bought some more materials today, £20.25 for a bag of cement and six bags of aggregate - makes a change from 2X1 and Sundeala (although I am quite good at rescuing noticeboards at work that are being chucked out - inevitably good quality 1970s Sundeala once you have stripped off the faded psychadelic fuzzy felt covering :lol The boys and I kept our eyes open but didn't spot any useful blocks or bricks in the skips we passed - must try cruising through some different streets. It was too cold to do anything and yesterday's cast is a bit green, so hopefully tomorrow.

I am using stainless steel track because that was what Cliff Barker was supplying when I bought it, he has since produced nickel silver but it is a lot more expensive, and having now mastered the art of soldering to the SS (phosphoric acid is my friend) I wouldn't change anyway. The stainless steel is mechanically stronger, expands and contracts less and will hopefully need less cleaning than nickel silver. I chose Cliff Barker's track because his is the only scale section available anywhere (code 180, which he partly produced because I had been badgering him about scale track) and it fits his new 1/32 sleeper/chair mouldings, which grip the rail really well, the whole thing being much superior to anything else available in G1, in my opinion.

WARNING rivet-counting alert :

I couldn't use Peco track anyway because of wheel and track standards issues. Without being boring about it (moi?) G1 is afflicted with a pretty dreadful wheel profile and track standard as "standard" - yes they really do call it the standard standard, bless 'em. I built the 48DS and my first wagon using this, but having shown it to friends and received helpful comments like "nice model crap wheels" I started falling down the slippery slope of "scale track and wheel standards". This is actually a right pain and bore, and is why anything I buy needs its wheels replacing, but there it is. I am endeavouring to use what we have called "ScaleOne32" which is a bit like P4/S7 but in a G1 context.

All that said, the results do look good even when you get close up, so hopefully all the pain etc will be worth it in the end.



Actually, that's a really bad photo to use as the Toad is sitting on Peco rail shoehorned into Cliff Barker'searlier whitemetal chairs on timber sleepers

 

[Jordan]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I bought my lad a Hornby Virgin Pendolino trainset, which came today... I looked like that earlier on his bedroom floor... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

.... OO just seems SO tiny after 32mm gauge track, never mind G1..!! :shock:

(Pardon my ignorance, but what is the gauge you're working to, as it's to scale - not 45mm then..??)

 

[28ten]

Embryo G1 Garden line

WARNING rivet-counting alert

I couldn't use Peco track anyway because of wheel and track standards issues. Without being boring about it (moi?) G1 is afflicted with a pretty dreadful wheel profile and track standard as "standard" - yes they really do call it the standard standard, bless 'em. I built the 48DS and my first wagon using this, but having shown it to friends and received helpful comments like "nice model crap wheels" I started falling down the slippery slope of "scale track and wheel standards". This is actually a right pain and bore, and is why anything I buy needs its wheels replacing, but there it is. I am endeavouring to use what we have called "ScaleOne32" which is a bit like P4/S7 but in a G1 context.

All that said, the results do look good even when you get close up, so hopefully all the pain etc will be worth it in the end.

[attachment=0:3jlw7b5w]Wheelshot.jpg[/attachment:3jlw7b5w]

Actually, that's a really bad photo to use as the Toad is sitting on Peco rail shoehorned into Cliff Barker'searlier whitemetal chairs on timber sleepers

Ah yes been there and got the tee shirt The models do run more smoothly over pointwork as well
I dont think it would be possible to get away with S7 outdoors, but the larger scale must make it a bit more forgiving.

For some reason I feel the frst Western Thunder caption competition coming on :laugh:

 

[Simon]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I bought my lad a Hornby Virgin Pendolino trainset, which came today... I looked like that earlier on his bedroom floor... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

.... OO just seems SO tiny after 32mm gauge track, never mind G1..!! :shock:

(Pardon my ignorance, but what is the gauge you're working to, as it's to scale - not 45mm then..??)

Jordan, the gauge is the same in both cases at 45mm. It is the width of the flangeway at the crossing nose and wheel profile that varies and if these things don't match then you can achieve a non working scenario.

Gauge one has a flawed standard for very honourable reasons, in that G1MRA were trying to accommodate older tinplate type stock in their "new" standard (set just after WW2). If you look at the 03 wheel in the picture above you can see that is much "chunkier" than those on my other stock.

As Cynric says, running scale wheels and track in the garden is a bit on the hopeful side, but I figure that the extra size of G1 should make this possible. If it all goes horribly wrong you will see the resulting disasters unfolding on this thread....

 

[Simon]

Embryo G1 Garden line

For some reason I feel the frst Western Thunder caption competition coming on :laugh:

Feel free - I don't mind being the butt of a few jokes, I've got broad, er.... shoulders 

Anyway, I'm witholding the worst shot that the little perisher took, can't think where he gets his sense of humour from  :

 

[Jordan]

Embryo G1 Garden line

... the gauge is the same in both cases at 45mm. It is the width of the flangeway at the crossing nose and wheel profile that varies and if these things don't match then you can achieve a non working scenario.

Ah, thanks for the explanation!

 

[28ten]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I would have thought running would be fine as the extra mass will make a big difference point work would be my main worry but as you are using stainless steel expansion should be less of a problem.
Out of interest why are the concrete sections being pre-cast? I have no experience of garden railways, so I am probably totally off the mark :laugh: but I would make shuttering and do a pour into that, just like making foundations.

 

[Phill Dyson]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I think I would have stuck with ordinary Peco track personally, my stock has plenty of mass but I wouldn't rate it's chances of staying on the track with S7 tolerances , but I appreciate that the difference between that & your Gauge 1 set up is not quite the same , expansion is irrelevant really so long as you leave expansion gaps.
How are you planning to fix the track & will it be ballasted ?
Cheers Phill :wave:

 

[Simon]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I would have thought running would be fine as the extra mass will make a big difference point work would be my main worry but as you are using stainless steel expansion should be less of a problem.
Out of interest why are the concrete sections being pre-cast? I have no experience of garden railways, so I am probably totally off the mark :laugh: but I would make shuttering and do a pour into that, just like making foundations.

Pointwork is my main concern too, I have nearly finished the first one, a C10 curved turnout. The two areas that give me most concern are the crossing and keeping it "flat" and the tiebar security, giving the requirement for each blade to be electrically insulated from each other. I have bought some 14BA nuts and bolts so that I am not relying only on solder and epoxy in this area.

I won't post a picture of it yet as it looks quite nice but is an unproven piece of equipment and I will feel like a right twit if it doesn't work.

As regards pre-cast re shuttering, the pre cast section (after the bridge) came about because the ground level was quite low relative to the trackbed level here and I wanted a single track on an embankment, so I decided on concrete "bridge decks" spanning between concrete block "towers" which I would then backfill. After casting a very imperfect curved section I had the idea of using pairs of lintels and then had a lucky find on ebay of four long lintels nearby that had been holding up an oil tank which I got for £5.00. After using another pair of (bought new - ?ouch) lintels for the "fanning out" section, with concrete filler in between, I am now casting the base into a form. The formwork consists of old library hard plastic shelf fronts that I rescued from the rubbish pile at work, sandwiched together into 4 odd foot lengths and clamped onto the previous section with a sash cramp and held in place with a motley collection of concrete blocks and ballast. This section is the "double track" bit before the "Y" of the junction and is sitting on a load of rubble.

On the other side of the lifting bridge the track base is already laid for quite a distance in heavy timber rescued from a railway crossing that was replaced with one of those new fangled composite board things.



I love the smell of creosote

None of this is very logical and I am making it up as I go along, my guiding principle is using what I have to hand and trackbase stability or alternatively scrounging and idiotic over engineering, depending upon your point of view.

I am not sure how I will link the two sections together, a pond, a rockery and a tunnel (I've got to have a tunnel) will feature somehow.

And another thing, I don't want to move house - ever!!

 

[Simon]

Embryo G1 Garden line

I think I would have stuck with ordinary Peco track personally, my stock has plenty of mass but I wouldn't rate it's chances of staying on the track with S7 tolerances , but I appreciate that the difference between that & your Gauge 1 set up is not quite the same , expansion is irrelevant really so long as you leave expansion gaps.
How are you planning to fix the track & will it be ballasted ?
Cheers Phill :wave:

I am planning to glue the track down with gripfix and then ballast it with with granite chippings secured with SBR, applied applying the SBR onto damped ballast as in indoor model railways.

This sounds a bit mad but I think it will work, Don Froud's beautiful G1 line is ballasted with this method, here is my GW 2 plank parked on the goods siding on his Combe Down Railway last summer.



Both Don and John Froud, their models and Don's railway are another huge source of inspiration for my line.

 

[iploffy]

Embryo G1 Garden line

Great start been following this thread with interest but what is SBR

Ian

 

[lancer1027]

Embryo G1 Garden line

Love the pic Simon. Please keep posting them

 

[Jordan]

Embryo G1 Garden line

... but what is SBR

Ian

Yes, just the question I was going to ask..??!! :scratch: