Does anything change?

[76043]

In my experience exhibiting my layout at shows, there's plenty of kids attending, sadly they don't get well served by the high level layouts.

I don't think it matters one jot if you are a ready to plonker or a riveting expert with a boring tool. Running trains is what we all do.

My Dad has no interest in model making, I picked it all up myself, eventually gaining a HND in Modelmaking.

Tony

 

[Pencarrow]

I'm not sure that the traditional model railway club is a good a barometer of age profiles of those into trains. I think a lot of the younger train loving types are modelling and sharing via social media not clubs. I no longer class myself as 'young' (being over 50) but haven't been a club member for probably over 10 years.

 

[simond]

I’m an enthusiastic supporter of the local club, but I ain’t joining!

 

[Richard Gawler]

Of course, there's building everything yourself for your layout, and there's building everything yourself for your layout.....
View attachment 194698
It's undoubtedly scratchbuilt, but is it therefore 'better' than R-T-R..??
It's certainly cheaper.....

When I was of the "correct" age I read Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" (twice) and from this I would ask some different questions first. Did the builder prefer making things to buying things? Did they make some coaches to enjoy with their Deltic? Were they partially-sighted and unable to enjoy a higher level of detail? Have they died or changed scale; why else would anyone be offering this for sale?

Pirsig meanders around but does bring one fair conclusion that an offcut from an empty beer can is the perfect way to shim the loose handlebar on an expensive motorcycle. I want to know more before judging something as "better".

 

[DavidB]

I don't seem to fit here. When I was young, in 1950s rural Lincolnshire, there was a line opposite our house along which trains ran (I saw Mallard once) but what was running was, generally, a mystery. I wasn't that interested but loved the smell.
I was always curious as to how things were made and worked, often breaking things in my desire to get to the workings, and always enjoyed using my hands to make things, to which I confess very variable success. I made models when young, aircraft, ships, cars, historical figures and more besides. I never went train spotting and being away at boarding school meant I missed out on most of the 60s.
My interest in model railways began mid 70s when I began work near Swindon and there was a superb model shop, Froud & Hext. I got a soldering iron and made almighty messes but had fun. My interest Great Western was because of the location. Family and work meant a 25 year hiatus and when I returned I went P4 which I find very rewarding.
As for steam v diesel, I have always found diesels soulless. An interest in history, especially the early part of the C20th (late C18th and early C19th is also an interest but no trains then), I went down the steam route.
I have absolutely no interest in modern railways but enjoy the heritage railways, more their atmosphere and the bits that affected peoples' lives, not the details of x loco, y operation or z whatever. It's lovely to step back in time and let the imagination get to work.
So, I have little interest in railways except in the early C20th which I hang on the GW. I enjoy making models and have developed my modelling skills a long way since those early efforts. Reading around the subjects tends to centre on social history.
Am I atypical, odd, weird or what? Railway modelling is a great hobby which is tremendously diverse. So far, I have found it friendly and inclusive.

 

[simond]

I tend to use the ally from beer cans (Stella, last time IIRC) to shim the sleeve joints on the Guzzi exhausts.

 

[simond]

Am I atypical, odd, weird or what?

David,

yes,

like the rest of us.

long may it continue!

Simon

 

[Mike W]

Hmm. I share Allen M's original post in that the same conversations are going on today. The LNWR Society is going through a phase of thinking it needs to appeal to teenagers who know nothing at all about railways. I fundamentally disagree! In my experience life often gets in the way of hobbies (all hobbies) but age, financial stability and spare time usually cause a return to them later in life.
Also, I'm the youngest of three brothers and my father was a modeller. My eldest brother and I both became life long enthusiasts and modellers, whilst the middle brother didn't - he loves making things, just not model railways.
What will be will be.
Mike

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Of course, there's building everything yourself for your layout, and there's building everything yourself for your layout.....
View attachment 194698
It's undoubtedly scratchbuilt, but is it therefore 'better' than R-T-R..??
It's certainly cheaper.....

I think the price tag must have slipped off the Union Pacific !

 

[Jordan]

I think the price tag must have slipped off the Union Pacific !

I didn't see a price ticket on that - if it had been £225, that would have been a bargain!!
I don't doubt that someone spent time building that Deltic, probably did the best they could, and it was of value to them. But - would it make the grade on a layout at an exhibition, because it's not R-T-R??*
My point was that I don't think the hobby is so easily sub-divided and categorised, either "all scratchbuilt" or "all R-T-R", or that 'scratchbuilt' is automatically superior.

*heaven help us if it is!! Must admit it reminded me of the original Skytrex's diesels...!!

 

[Herb Garden]

My point was that I don't think the hobby is so easily sub-divided and categorised, either "all scratchbuilt" or "all R-T-R", or that 'scratchbuilt' is automatically superior.

I think you make a good point there.

I'm very much a scratch builder. (Mainly because I can't afford RTR and they don't make what I want).

That said I am happy to admit my scratch building isn't very good and certainly not up to the standard of RTR. But does that matter?

The key thing is that what I do makes me happy. I find it fun and relaxing. In a chaotic world of stressful job, endless DIY, social life, family etc it is nice to have something that provides some distraction and has a calming effect.

That said although scratch building locos is calming. Building baseboards and wiring layouts I find really annoying.... But I enjoy running trains.

So why, for example, should we judge someone for buying RTR stock and track if what makes them happy is building scenery to run through? I don't think we should.

We seem to hold ourselves and others to an undefined standard of high fidelity.... And only by achieving such standards do we gain happiness And by doing so do we apply pressure where there is no need?

I believe that everyone who partakes in this hobby are welcome to do so in which ever way suits them. The most successful modeller is the one who enjoys themselves the most and has the most fun.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Going back to the original post, this hobby is on the whole the following of older people, I believe that this is down to cost to be honest, it's nothing to do with the battle between Scratch building or RTR.
Yes we need to keep encouraging the youngsters as much as possible but it still remains an expensive hobby for a lot of people and beyond the reach sadly of some who may well have the interest but cannot afford £40.00 odd quid for a RTR or kit wagon let alone a £4-500 pound Heljan diesel for themselves or indeed their kids !

 

[Pencarrow]

Interestingly I've discovered that building loco kits makes me very unhappy as my skills with solder and paint just don't do good kits justice, and I definitely don't have the skills to do battle (and win) with poor kits.

I'm now drawing the stock building line at wagons. Their rough and ready finishes far better suits what I can knock up. The time and despair saved is going into modelling buildings and structures.

Life is too short to make yourself unhappy. With limited modelling time available I'm focussing on making buildings and doing scenic work, which makes me happy.

The recent G0G Stafford event showed me that I'm very much in a minority. I looked across all the G0G competition entries... There was a sea of rolling stock and just a single, solitary scenic item. Goes to show I am 'special'...

 

[simond]

Chris,

I fear you do yourself a disservice. I don’t know whether you’ve ever tried to build a top end kit (basically Martin Finney or his successors, or something very similar) but if it’s a good kit, it fits together properly and there will be no glaring gaps or bits that don’t fit. Unless you’ve gone wrong, of course - and then it’s obvious - which is a good thing. RTBM, assuming the BM is legible and useful and relevant.

Making a decent job of a crap kit is hopefully marginally less work than scratchbuilding, witness Mickoo & Nick D’s threads on here, amongst others. It takes time, and you have to have developed some skills (aka, have made mistakes and learned from them) and you need patience, and time, and persistence, possible some specialist tools, and maybe a deal down at the crossroads at midnight.

Your buildings are at the very top. Whilst I accept that what you do so well is a different set of skills from building a loco, I figure that if you can learn to do that, I’m pretty sure you can build a decent loco kit, given a few pointers, and some support along the road.

I have ranted on here and on RMW about cheap, actually, crap, kits. They put people off, and it’s not fair, because the poor punter thinks it’s their fault, but actually, it’s a kit designer who couldn’t be bothered to do their job properly, and who gets away with selling stuff that is not of “merchantable quality”. Easy for me (and others, Nick & Mickoo are not shy) to say “j’accuse”, but far more difficult to prove.

in short, don't say “I can’t“, say “I haven’t yet”, if you must!

OTOH, if you want today “I don’t want to”, then that’s a very rational choice. What was it Gandalf said about “having to do the best with the time we have”?

atb
Simon

 

[Richard Gawler]

I suppose, the content of WT is skewed a little by the work of the professional modelmakers here. Their customers are likely to be moneyed and therefore older people. And, because WT is to do with making things rather than buying things, we have more work here in larger scales, which also attract older modelmakers. The younger people are still keen but they are elsewhere in the hobby.

 

[djparkins]

Of course, there's building everything yourself for your layout, and there's building everything yourself for your layout.....
View attachment 194698
It's undoubtedly scratchbuilt, but is it therefore 'better' than R-T-R..??
It's certainly cheaper.....

You seem stuck on this Jordan. Where in this thread has anyone said that kit built locos are automatically superior to RTR. Theoretically, perhaps they should be, if built and painted well. But we both know this isn’t often the case! For myself l simply remarked that l didn’t see anything kit built at that show I attended.

My comments about there being two hobbies, as l outlined, was conjecture only and l did preface the paragraph with a ‘maybe’!

For myself, l love the hobby of modelling [building], whether aircraft, railways, ships, vehicles or figures. I do not discriminate. Just as I draw no division between steam, diesel or electric traction with regard to railways. Obviously for me, it’s a little different, as models have been my livelihood for a long time. Part-time since 1971, and full time since 1975.

It has been stated in this thread that it is best not be absolutist about these matters. But it has also been stated that in the end the hobby is all about running trains. But it might be that for some of us it is more about building railway items than running them. After all, we do not want to be absolutist about these things, do we?

It has also been stated that it is all OK provided we enjoy our hobby. Now before anyone gets the wrong idea – I do FULLY agree with this. But I do recall that superb modeller, the late John Allison, saying in a letter to [I think] Railway Modeller, that for him it was not so. It was actually about setting himself continual challenges to get through to reach the next level up in his modelling skills. Kind of like a musician would, I imagine. He got a backlash for that too!

The late Adrian Swain met with some hostility on this forum, and much more hostility [to the point of being banned] over on RMWeb. This was for pointing out the inaccuracies in some RTR PO wagons. Fifty two, I think, was the number of discrepancies he found [from copies of his correspondence to the company concerned, that I now have]. For this he was roundly shouted down – after all, no one wants to hear bad things about something they might want to buy, and that may offer them an easier route than kit building and painting. For my part, I found myself [broadly] in agreement with Adrian, as matters like these interest me far more than the latest sound chip for whatever RTR loco.

And, since we all want to be inclusive, one view is worth as much as anyone else’s on a forum such as this.

DJP

 

[Tim V]

Back in 1971, I was the young member in the club. There were about 4/5 of us - junior members. 16 was the minimum age. The ordinary members were fine with us, encouraging and inspiring. A couple of those other 'junior' members are on here!

What about today? I'm a member of a group that has been together over 30 years. When we met up, we were in our 30s. But we have 'picked up' some new members - who themselves have now slipped into their 30s!

It isn't just about pulling new people in, it's about welcoming them in as well. A preserved railway I'm involved with has an extensive young person training scheme - meaning that unlike some heritage railways which are the domain of older men, who get all the 'fun' jobs, our railway is run by young people.

 

[Herb Garden]

Back in 1971, I was the young member in the club. There were about 4/5 of us - junior members. 16 was the minimum age. The ordinary members were fine with us, encouraging and inspiring. A couple of those other 'junior' members are on here!

What about today? I'm a member of a group that has been together over 30 years. When we met up, we were in our 30s. But we have 'picked up' some new members - who themselves have now slipped into their 30s!

It isn't just about pulling new people in, it's about welcoming them in as well. A preserved railway I'm involved with has an extensive young person training scheme - meaning that unlike some heritage railways which are the domain of older men, who get all the 'fun' jobs, our railway is run by young people.

Completely agree Tim. It's all about welcome and community and sharing that makes these groups a success

 

[Richard Gawler]

It has also been stated that it is all OK provided we enjoy our hobby. Now before anyone gets the wrong idea – I do FULLY agree with this. But I do recall that superb modeller, the late John Allison, saying in a letter to [I think] Railway Modeller, that for him it was not so. It was actually about setting himself continual challenges to get through to reach the next level up in his modelling skills. Kind of like a musician would, I imagine. He got a backlash for that too!

These words strike a chord with me. The main thing that keeps me going is to do something better or more easily next time. Parts of my Heybridge Railway topic are showing how my model making is evolving since I moved to 7mm scale. John Allison took over providing the inspiration for me where Cyril Freezer left off and I cannot begin to imagine how many people built a lineside factory from an Airfix engine shed. And I hope I don't get a backlash!

 

[Bagnall built]

as someone who's fast approaching 30 eekkk...

I've been involved in model railways since well being brought home from the hospital , but i am 3rd generation railway modeler , my grandad liked railways and was of that generation that built everything , he wasn't the most prototypical and that didn't bother him at all , his triang fleet of 31s and 37s forever being striped and repainted into the latest liveries . he got his love from the gasworks outside his window and then the wcml from his back garden and his dad building the things 12" to the foot scale , so naturaly my dad got hooked on model railways and plastic kits in the 70s , but his younger brother , played with stuff and went spotting a bit etc, but has no real interest at all . and its the same thing with me , i am hooked , but my young brother is the same as my dads brother plays with a few bits he has and thats about it .

So i feel its just one of those things you either get it or you don't , but then tbh when i was small my dad worked in the model shop soo that may have helped .

But i too now frequent many shows both big and small as trade having worked in a model shop myself , and you do see lots of older guys and girls , and little kids with family's but you do see a fair few teens , not a majority but more than 2 but then please bear in mind that a local show in a school/church hall in a town may not be the easiest thing to get too when you cant drive and that for many will put them off .

And having that trade back ground ive dealt with a lot of railway modelers and just as in any aspect some are nice and others frankly you'd rather pee on a 3rd rail .

I've had all the snooty comments , you cant tell me anything i know more than you because i am older... and like wise ive seen traders act awfully with children , i forget who said it ..... but "children are the future" and if you don't play nice they wont be back . *yes i know who said it*

one of my fondest memorise from working in the shop was when after being berated by a customer for 20 minutes , because we hadn't received a part yet for a loco of his that was being repaired (this was less than a week of him giving us said loco) . a young lad walked in about 7 or 9 years old with his mum , as nicely and as politely as you could said that his diesel loco wasn't working , so i took a look at it 5 minutes and it was whizzing around our track , the smile and gratitude of that little lad made my day . I've seen him at a few of the local shows in the years since and to me that's what we want to see.


i don't think the hobby is in danger but maybe the hobby of old is and maybe the local shows in the next few years will be a thing of the past ,the yuff are active on social media , less so the railway toddelr or any other paper based mags .