Early High Ended LSWR wagon.

Jon Nazareth

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
The construction of the LBSCR horse boxes are is coming to and end and so, I thought that I would make a start on these. I've already made quite a number of LBSCR wagons and there aren't any more that I particularly want to make. Having said that, I do have two sets of early wagon number plates that will need to be used up on something and a pair of wagons may appear in years to come. I've already made an early SDJR cattle wagon and it seemed to make some sort of sense tobild on those with something from the same part of the Country.
I have an excellent drawing of the High Ended wagon and it contains a wealth of information and detail. The drawing is dated 1872 but was amended in 1877. There are some notes which include, 'Use Hexagonal Nuts' and 'All Nuts Bearing on Woodwork to Have Proper Washers'.

The other wagon has a date of C1863. I don't have a proper drawing of it and so, I enlarged the one that you see here, the problem is that it's not correct. With the buffer beam enlarged too 7' 8", the height of the body of the wagon measures at 2' 6"/7" instead of the 2' 3" stated on the drawing. I'm not overly worried as I shall go by the stated dimensions.

Jon

IMG_4924.JPGIMG_4925.JPG
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Jon Nazareth said:
The other wagon has a date of C1863. I don't have a proper drawing of it and so, I enlarged the one that you see here, the problem is that it's not correct. With the buffer beam enlarged too 7' 8", the height of the body of the wagon measures at 2' 6"/7" instead of the 2' 3" stated on the drawing. I'm not overly worried as I shall go by the stated dimensions.
Click to expand...
This drawing looks like a tracing of a drawing in Colburn which is apparently a GER wagon. It certainly looks like one of the GER wagons but the side on photographs I have seen of the GER wagons suggest they were a bit shorter - less overhang at each end - so if the early drawing in Colburn is actually a similar design for LSWR that could solve a mystery. I will have to dig out my copy of Colburn to check what it actually says.
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I agree with Overseer, it is GER. Vol 2 of the Selsey tramway by Laurie Cooksey has similar drawings (also quoting Colburn) and photos of the actual wagon, which would help when modelling it. The Selsey Tramway bought six of them in 1899 from the GER.
 
Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
If it appeared in a book on LSWR wagons you could write to the author? Maybe they were contractor built and both railways had similar?

Mike
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
For anyone interested, the Colburn book is available online at Hathi Trust - Catalog Record: Locomotive engineering, and the mechanism of railways : a treatise on the principles and construction of the locomotive engine, railway carriages, and railway plant ... Illustrated by sixty-four large engravings and two hundred and forty woodcuts.

This is the drawing which has been traced by several people.
Colburn GER wagon.jpg

I don't know if the LSWR also had similar wagons. Over the years I have also been unable to find photographs of GER wagons which match the length of the wagon drawn in Colburn. Adrian Mark's piece linked to by Dog Star has a good photo of a GER wagon of this type but the axles are closer to the ends than the drawing shows. Richard Davidson built his model to match the drawing rather than the photos. There are also photos taken at Mistley Quay which include side views of these wagons which also look shorter than the drawing. Were there two lengths? Or more photos?

Sorry Jon for the thread drift.
 
Jon Nazareth

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Thank you all for your comments, all very interesting and I've taken them all on board.
The drawing that I have is in, 'LSWR CARRIAGES Volume 4, Goods, Departmental Stock and Miscellany' by, G R Weddell and it appears on page 8. The text states, 'The Metropolitan drawing is dated December 1863, and is clearly marked L&SW.........'
As I've already cut some of the pieces to make up the wagon, I shall carry on with the build. It would be a shame to waste the material especially as I have to order it from Canada and my supplies are exceedingly low. The 24" lengths of Evergreen Styrene that I use aren't available in the UK hence the overseas order.

Jon

P.S. I did print off a copy of the drawing posted by Overseer but it has come out very blurry and I'm not able to read off the dimensions.
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Jon Nazareth said:
P.S. I did print off a copy of the drawing posted by Overseer but it has come out very blurry and I'm not able to read off the dimensions.
Click to expand...
Jon, I reduced the resolution to post here. You can download a higher resolution jpg version from the link posted. It is one of the last few images in Volume 2.
 
Jon Nazareth

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Overseer
I did go in to Vol 2 and tried to print off a better image but failed miserably. I did manage to download a copy but it wasn't any better than the one that you posted. I'll stick to what I've got and see how it all turns out.

Jon
 
Jon Nazareth

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Rob
Thank you for doing that for me, much appreciated. I've printed them all and will take a proper look at them with a cup of tea.

Jon
 
Jon Nazareth

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
I've gone back to working on these two wagons. In the above text for the GER wagon, it states that the flooring is 3" think, some floor! The thickest styrene sheet that I have is 3mm which equates to about 2.67". The styrene for the floor should be about 3.37mm thick but, I'm going to use what I have. I think that I've got my sums right.

Jon
 
Jon Nazareth

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Can anyone suggest how the hinges on this wagon are figured. There is a section of timber bolted to the top of the sides on the outside face. To my way of thinking, for the hinge to be bolted to this timber, it would need to be kinked around it. Unless, of course, it's another draughtsman's error and the hinge finishes below the added piece of timber.

Any ideas chaps?

Jon
 
Rob R

Rob R

Western Thunderer
Jon,
I suspect we have another draughtsmans error (or two).

Enlagement of photo showing door.
Door.jpg
It looks to me that the top of the hinge strap goes behind the door top rail which will be notched to take it and all 4 bits (Plank, hinge, top rail and top rail iron work are all bolted up as one)
Enlargement of side elevation:-
Door top 1.jpg
As you can see, it's all drawn wrong.

Enlargement of top view:-
Door top 2.jpg
Here the bits do seem to be in the right order.
End section:-
Door 3.jpg
I think this is pretty acurate. You can see that the lower section of the door hinge is fitted to the solebar and the door section is pivoted offset to line up with the door.
You can just see the cross hatching for the door top timber and somewhere within that black blob is the iron strap across the top of the door and the latch.
Hope that helps, or at least points you in the right direction.
Rob
 
Ian_T

Ian_T

Western Thunderer
I'm very much a non-expert on these things Jon - but (side view - as drawn) I don't see how the door can be opened at all. Maybe I don't understand the latching.

Regards,

IanT

PS Rob makes the same point but in better detail. :)
 
Rob R

Rob R

Western Thunderer
The thing to remember is that the drawing was probably done for publication by someone unfamiliar with the real thing rather than by a draughtsman in Greater Brummagen who could just pop down to the factory floor to double check.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
What's New?
Top