Easy RTR steam loco to convert to P4

[WM183]

For the case where there is two wheels and a plain axle:
Just press on one wheel, then the other and place them on the axle inside their final seating. Then use a three square Swiss file to etch the seating of the wheels and slide the wheels over the etching to lock them into place. Use gauge to get the correct back to back.
For the case where there is two wheels and a gear pinion:
Much the same really but arrange so the pinion is in between the two wheels. The pinion also needs for the axle to be etched on its seating.
The above will hold true for RTR conversions which is the subject of this thread, but for kit/scratchbuild construction you will need the extend the axles and shorten them afterwards, because of hornblocks, gearbox etc. Basically the GW Tools method is the best way to go, but I don't know the current status of the trader, I haven't seen him at shows for a very long time.

I got my quartering tool and my rivet press tool off ebay. VERY worth hunting down, IMO. Great tools.

 

[MarkR]

Do you have a link for the quartering tool, please, thank you.

 

[76043]

GW Models – Fine Tools by George Watts

Ordering is suspended at present though.

 

[MarkR]

Many thanks, I think looking at the picture on the web-site, I might have one...........somewhere!

 

[oldravendale]

I hope George is OK. He's of a certain vintage! I've bought a number of tools from him - well built and they work. Quiet expensive but it's one of those "you get what you pay for" scenarios.

 

[James]

but I don't know the current status of the trader, I haven't seen him at shows for a very long time.

You can order online -

GW Models – Fine Tools by George Watts

 

[Marc Dobson]

Shame they aren't taking on anymore orders

 

[James]

Shame they aren't taking on anymore orders

That's only a temporary measure.

 

[Marc Dobson]

Fingers crossed

 

[WM183]

I need to get a set of their rolling bars sometime.

 

[Captain Kernow]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a RTR steam loco that could be easily converted from 00 to P4? Preferably a Pre-Grouping one.
Marc

The easiest steam loco conversion I have done (like some others on this thread) is the Bachmann 57XX/8750 pannier, using Ultrascale wheel sets.

Having discussed this previously with a friend, who has spoken to David Rogers at Ultrascale on the phone several times recently, I would be pretty confident that Ultrascale are not winding down production.

I have also converted the same Bachmann chassis using Gibson wheels. It worked fine, but takes quite a lot longer.

I'm pretty confident that the 8750 wheels (from Ultrascale) will fit the Bachmann 56XX chassis as well.

Last Scaleforum, I was fortunate enough to buy a P4 2721 pannier, which consisted of a much modified and improved Hornby body on a Bachmann 57XX chassis, using the aforementioned Ultrascale wheels, so perhaps a Bachmann chassis could be used for your pre-grouping conversion?

If you're not in a desperate hurry and are not confident about using the GW Models wheel press or achieving the quartering by other means, then it may be as well to wait for the Ultrascale wheels.

 

[76043]

For the case where there is two wheels and a plain axle:
Just press on one wheel, then the other and place them on the axle inside their final seating. Then use a three square Swiss file to etch the seating of the wheels and slide the wheels over the etching to lock them into place. Use gauge to get the correct back to back.
For the case where there is two wheels and a gear pinion:
Much the same really but arrange so the pinion is in between the two wheels. The pinion also needs for the axle to be etched on its seating.
The above will hold true for RTR conversions which is the subject of this thread, but for kit/scratchbuild construction you will need the extend the axles and shorten them afterwards, because of hornblocks, gearbox etc. Basically the GW Tools method is the best way to go, but I don't know the current status of the trader, I haven't seen him at shows for a very long time.

Thank you very much for this info, much appreciated.
Tony

 

[Mancunian]

Thank you very much for this info, much appreciated.
Tony

One caveat! Before you press on the wheels you will need to work out how much side play you want and decide just how many washers (or shims if you prefer) of what size and thickness you need. Sorry about forgetting that, I haven't attempted one of these conversions for a while.

 

[76043]

One caveat! Before you press on the wheels you will need to work out how much side play you want and decide just how many washers (or shims if you prefer) of what size and thickness you need. Sorry about forgetting that, I haven't attempted one of these conversions for a while.

Thanks again, I have recently done this EM conversion of said Pannier by using EMGS axles and turning down the original wheels and using 1mm spacers. I pressed on the wheels using my lathe, but the advice on Gibson wheels is super as I haven't used them yet, so thank you.

This conversion is not P4, so is off topic.
Tony

 

[Bob Essex]

I have recently done this EM conversion of said Pannier by using EMGS axles and turning down the original wheels and using 1mm spacers. I pressed on the wheels using my lathe, but the advice on Gibson wheels is super as I haven't used them yet, so thank you.

This conversion is not P4, so is off topic.

I'd not say it's off topic as I adapt wheels like this for P4. As well as quite a few bogie diesels I've also converted a Hornby J15, Oxford N7 and a Bachmann 03 this way. The advantage of re-machining the wheels is that you can leave the flange depth a bit deeper ( I don't use a form tool) and thus help offset the need for much vertical axle movement. It could be said this doesn't follow the basic ethos of P4 but then nor does just simple converting of RTR you'd be replacing the whole chassis with a more scale one. I've done that of course but take the pragmatic route when it seems to offer an advantage.

Bob

 

[Mancunian]

I don't think it's off topic at all. The issue of putting AGW wheels on axles true and square affects both EM and P4 modellers

 

[James]

but then nor does just simple converting of RTR you'd be replacing the whole chassis with a more scale one

I don't think this is outside the "P4 ethos" at all.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I going to ask a silly question now. Why are P4 and EM wheels not self quartering?
I ask this as I build in 7mm and G1(1:32) and in these scales all driving wheels are self quartering. The end of the axles have a square machines in and there is a corresponding square hole. 7mm moved away for quartering jigs before I started in o gauge over 30 years ago.
Marc

 

[AJC]

I going to ask a silly question now. Why are P4 and EM wheels not self quartering?
I ask this as I build in 7mm and G1(1:32) and in these scales all driving wheels are self quartering. The end of the axles have a square machines in and there is a corresponding square hole. 7mm moved away for quartering jigs before I started in o gauge over 30 years ago.
Marc

Because they aren't - it's a decision made by a handful of people, possibly independently, 50 years or so ago, based no doubt on the tooling and machines they had available to them and that's where we are.

Actually, that's not quite right: Romford and Markits - both now defunct - did do EM axles (and P4 axles in the latter case, used for setting up chassis before the 'proper' wheels went on), but not the finer profile wheels. Quartering is not necessarily that hard, but it's one of my least favourite bits of loco-building.

Adam

 

[76043]

The latest Alan Gibson catalogue does says:

We are developing a range of self quartering wheels and its no secret that this is taking a lot longer than we thought. This is mainly due to having to modify/produce new tooling parts, the financial commitment to produce the new axles (in three gauges) and general pressure on development time.

Basically don't wait for them to arrive.

Romfords/Markits fit in EM if the splashers can accommodate.
Tony