EZ Mk.1 carriages, West coast of Scotland, c1986, starting with CW bogies.

[Dog Star]

This topic was requested earlier this week, in another thread, and I shall start by giving some of the background... and a few of the constraints which apply to the construction. Peter has a liking of big diesels and decided that a Cl.37 is just the ticket and after browsing the internet he settled on some photos which showed 37 408 working services between Glasgow and Oban / Fort William. After a while the question of carriages came to the fore... what, when, where?

Our wish is to produce a realistic representation of Mk.1 carriages in service on the West Coast of Scotland, circa 1986, and in a formation which might have been hauled by a Class 37/4. The initial step was to search for photos of trains on the Oban and Fort William lines in the period 1985-1990, that search was to lead us to the gallery of Bob Lumley and a superb photo of 37 408 (ticking all the boxes:- location, era, service). Bob's photos gave us a starting point for Mk.1 carriage types although individual carriages were not identifiable. A chance discussion with Richard Carr pointed us in the direction of the Platform 5 publication "Loco-hauled carriages... 1985" and a copy was purchased via Ebay.

The choice of which supplier was driven by price and by articles on building relevant kits. Whilst Peter and I have high regard for JLTRT kits we were concerned by Heather's series in the S7 Group Newsletter - good kits let down by mis-match between components. At the time when we choosing the kits neither Peter nor I felt that we could do justice to MMP products and so that left EZ as the preferred choice. We read whatever we could find on the the internet about EZ kits, we looked at the models on the EZ exhibition stand, we spoke to Laurie Lynch about the provision of JLTRT castings, and then other WTers mentioned the EZ price offer for kits bought at Telford. Decision made and money spent - five Mk.1 kits travelled home with us.

The bodies of the carriages are to be done by Peter whilst my part is the research, the underframes and anything which represents a detour there and back again.

And so to the start of the research...

 

[Dog Star]

What coaches? Where in Scotland? When in use?

Easy to say, more difficult to ask in an appropriate manner and decidely difficult to unravel when personal knowledge is restricted to Chocolate and Brown of the pre-WW1 period. The purchase of the Platform 5 book on loco-hauled coaching stock (1985) was looked upon as the panacea to getting the "correct" coaches and yet became almost the death-knell of the project (so much information and yet so un-intelligble at the time). We wanted coaches with external window frames... we wanted coaches with different body styles and with different bogie types... and by now we had got to understand that Mk.1 underframes were anything but standard - we needed help, advice and direction.

I suspect that we read the RMWeb forum like many other WTers and because of some of the topics over there I was aware of the writings and experience of Bob Reid. Long before Bob joined WT I had approached Bob with a simple question:- "Given the information contained in the Platform 5 book, how do we choose four or five carriages which could have been seen in the same rake, at the same time, on a service for the West Coast of Scotland?". Patient as always Bob described the types of carriages which were suitable for those services, how to find those carriage types in the Platform book (which uses design codes rather than diagram numbers as the primary index) and how to select individual carriages based upon build year (influences window framing), maintenance depot (for providing stock for the desired services) and bogie / brake arrangements (so we got suitable combinations of coach diagram and bogie type). After several weeks of reading, creating lists of possible candidates, reviewing and rejecting coach details, we arrived at a short list of about ten carriages over four diagrams... all available from Easybuild.

Only after selecting the carriage types and purchase of the corresponding kits, with appropriate bogies for the period 1986-1990, did we realise the significance of the different shapes of "V-hangers", the location of vacuum cylinders and the arrangement of brake pull-rods. Bob to the rescue and the rest is history... the history of the design evolution of the Mk.1 brake arrangements which is littered through several WT topics. Parkin as the bible for Mk.1 carriages? Probably, just do not accept what is written about the brake arrangements and try to come to terms with what has been omitted. For example:-
* equalised/non-equalised brake arrangements;
* symmetric/asymmetric V-hangers;
* vacuum cylinders inside / outside of the associated cross-shafts;
* intermediate fulcrum levers to ensure straight pull-rods.;
* alterations to truss framing to accomodate brake gear changes.

and just do not venture into the realm of Mk.1 TPOs without a guide.

In constructing our Mk.1 carriages from the EZ kits we have made some progress in getting closer to a prototype appearance and this topic shall include details of the changes which we have made. No promises about 100% accuracy, we want reasonable representations in a reasonable timescale - otherwise we would have gone down the MMP route (and have done for a BG given the value for money price of the MMP kit).

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

The modelling of five Mk.1 carriages in a condition appropriate to the 1985-1990 period starts with the basic EZ kit and the correct type of bogie. From the research exercise we realised early on that even with such a small number of coaches the rake is going to have B4 and Commonwealth bogies alongside the BR standard - thankfully those bogie variants are available from EZ and the quality is good for our purposes. Each coach that is being modelled is a representation of a prototype which was built post 1958 so each carriage is going to have external window frames and this option is available from EZ. Whilst EZ offers interior kits for the coaches we have yet to decide on how to fit out the interiors of the passenger compartments. Given Heather's experience of JLTRT compartment partitions and corridor screens we have obtained the EZ etches for the corridor screens and we expect to make brass partitions to suit. We have obtained the JLTRT interior detailing kit for the guard's compartment plus the EZ etches for the luggage cages. Anyone know of a source for 7mm BRUTES?

As for the underframes, we shall use many of the EZ castings / etches together with some JLTRT castings where the JLTRT item is either of better definition or provides a part which is not included in the EZ kit. At this time we have a hole in the strategy because one of the coach types is to be modelled in a dual heat / dual brake condition and we have no source of the air-brake components - nor a workable understanding of the myriad of pipes / conduits which run along the spine of the undeframe trussing.

Heather's philosophy in regard to building JLTRT coaches is a good approach and one that we shall follow with these coaches... embrace what is good, improve what can be improved with minimal effort and accept what might best be described as "I would not start from there". Nothing to stop WTers joining in and offering suggestions which go one step further much as has happened with Heather's coaching topics.

regards, Graham

 

[Cliff Williams]

Funnily enough I have just started '401 & '408 in large logo blue today from JLTRT kits.
Thankfully I have a man for the minefield of 37/4 mods, only an email away and keeping me right.
Look forward to seeing your developments!

 

[Dog Star]

Funnily enough I have just started '401 & '408 in large logo blue today from JLTRT kits.
Thankfully I have a man for the minefield of 37/4 mods, only an email away and keeping me right.

Please share such nuggets with WT and remember the catch-phrase "Pikkies please".

 

[Dog Star]

Two of the five coaches are to run on Commonwealth bogies and we obtained the appropriate EZ kits when we bought the carriages at Telford. Oooopps, EZ packed Mk.1 coach kits for Telford with BR standard bogies and a substitution of bogie type was made at the show. Only when reading the instructions which are provided with the CW bogie parts did we realise that coach kits for coaches with CW bogies are not the same as kits for coaches with either BR standard or B4 bogies. The physical shape/size of a prototype CW bogie is such that using a typical EZ moulding for an EZ CW bogie bolster results in a carriage riding 2.5mm higher than a coach with either the BR standard bogie or B4 bogie. A telephone call to EZ clarified the matter - kits supplied with CW bogies have a thinner bogie mounting plate for fixing to the underneath of the underframe... this point had been overlooked when bogie types were swapped at Telford. Replacement parts arrived by post within a couple of days. Here is a photo showing the two types of bogie mounting plate, CW to the left and BR standard / B4 to the right.



So we now have the correct parts for fitting CW bogies to the standard EZ Mk.1 underframe moulding. However, if we follow the instructions and use the plate on the LHS (above) then we are accepting that the two carriages which have CW bogies today shall have CW bogies tomorrow, the day after ad nauseum - nothing wrong with that, just that I prefer the "change" to be embodied in the bogie rather than a feature of the underframe. Ideas are being considered and experiments may be undertaken.

 

[Osgood]

... kits supplied with CW bogies have a thinner bogie mounting plate for fixing to the underneath of the underframe... ....

......I prefer the "change" to be embodied in the bogie rather than a feature of the underframe. Ideas are being considered and experiments may be undertaken.

Sounds like you need to fit the thinner mounting plates to all underframes then - that way you'd only need to make up spacers and adapt the pivot pins for attaching non-CW bogies which would require the thicker mounting plate?

 

[Dog Star]

Sounds like you need to fit the thinner mounting plates to all underframes then - that way you'd only need to make up spacers and adapt the pivot pins for attaching non-CW bogies which would require the thicker mounting plate?

Now that would be a smooth manoeuver if I was starting afresh - I had fixed the thicker mounting plates to several of the undeframe mouldings before I became aware of the differences. The thicker plates have been fixed to the ABS underframe with 24 hour epoxy adhesive so if you know of a sure-fire, guaranteed, method of removing the thick plates then I shall be listening intently!

 

[Cliff Williams]

Best nugget I have learnt today is that one of my friends ( s 37/4s at the time at Eastfield ) applied the black to a fair few LLB 37/4s route indicator boxes with a small roller!

I have added a couple of pics to my workbench thread

 

[Dog Star]

A characteristic of the CW bogie is that the bogie is not symmetrical about the transverse centre line... the asymmetry which can be seen in a side view comes from the location of the horizontal traction rod and of the vertical ride damper. The EZ kit provides separate mouldings for the traction rod and ride damper, those parts are applied to a solebar moulding after the solebar has been modified to accomodate the rod / damper. How to modify the solebar moulding is described in the instructions along with reminders (warnings?) that the bogie solebars are to be created as Left-hand or Right-hand versions.

With eight bogie solebars to modify, for four bogies / two coaches, there is a good chance that the end result might be a 5-3 defeat rather than a 4-all draw. To help avoid the embarassment I have put white paint on the area of each moulding which is to be modified, as here:-



After removing the areas marked white then the ride dampers and traction rods can be fitted to maintain the LH / RH nature of the individual solebars.


regards, Graham

 

[BrushType4]

Anyone know of a source for 7mm BRUTES?

Peter Clark does them.

www.peterclarkkits.com/lineside-accessories.html

 

[richard carr]

Graham

On a dual braked mk1 although there is a lot of stuff hidden in the under frame very little is actually visible and the parts that are can be obtained from JLTRT.

Richard

 

[Overseer]

Graham

Good choice of loco and train to model. The following very poor images of 37 408 may be of interest, but not much help in deciding on train formation or for detailing. They were taken from a moving car in mid 1988, from memory on the Fort William to Mallaig line. I don't think I was actually driving but the photos do demonstrate that a stationary position results in better photographs. Also in b/w, I used to carry two cameras, one with slide film and the other with black and white film so I could take lots of detail shots without breaking the bank, there might be a slide somewhere. Things have changed with digital cameras.


I can remove the images if they are disrupting your thread, just let me know.

 

[Dog Star]

Thank you Phil for the pointer to the BRUTEs, an e-mail shall be despatched for collection at Bristol in January.

Richard, thank you for reminding me about JLTRT for the air-brake components. My initial perusal of the Mk.2 parts list did not seem fruitful and yet given the Mk.2 range of stock there ought to be suitable castings from that source. A telephone call to Laurie could sort that question. I agree with you that the air brake cylinders are somewhat hidden inside of the truss fraaming - I was thinking more of the pipes / conduits attached to the truss verticals.

Fraser - definitely not. A Mk.2 BSO, hmm, that is not on the agenda. The first picture reminds me of travelling that route in 1975/6, possibly near to Arisaig. One of the signalmen at Mallaig had a wicked sense of humour, he had me pulling for England whilst trying to set the road for a departure. After a minute or so he took one step forward and stood on the carpet and I went backwards - there was an electric release to the lever and the "plunger" was set into the floor.