4mm Foamboard in a box

[Pencarrow]

Apologies, I didn't realised we'd gone off track talking about point actuation.

"Not sure on turnout actuation, we are still using Peco solenoids and Tortoise motors on the permanent layout therefore a rethink is needed, for example will whatever we use fit in the 50mm undercroft? Where is there any information on the use of aeromodelling actuators, unfortunately, we seemed to be utterly ignorant of such developments."

 

[jonte]

Apologies, I didn't realised we'd gone off track talking about point actuation.

"Not sure on turnout actuation, we are still using Peco solenoids and Tortoise motors on the permanent layout therefore a rethink is needed, for example will whatever we use fit in the 50mm undercroft? Where is there any information on the use of aeromodelling actuators, unfortunately, we seemed to be utterly ignorant of such developments."

Perhaps my fault, Chris, for waffling on about homemade Bullfrog type point actuators as they’re difficult to get hold of here, but I have to say that I’m glad I did as I gleaned much from your valuable contribution.

Many thanks again.

Jonte

 

[David Hall]

Hello there.

Just to throw in my experience of working with foamcore. I built a 009 scale narrow gauge layout about a decade ago and used it for the baseboard. The upshot? It worked and I successfully showed it at around a dozen exhibitions.

It needed to be very well braced (hopefully an image is attached of the testpiece I did prior to the proper layout), but was very simply assembled with a hot glue gun. It was extremely strong, tothe point where I can stand on the above baseboard with no problem (having said that, I'm a slight chap of 65kg!).

There are a few caveats...

Firstly, it was small, at around 100cm by 45cm. It was in one piece, so no baseboard joints of alignment to worry about. I think that may present more issues.

It was faced with thin ply - firstly for backscene and end boards, but also to protect it. Foamcore is susceptible to knocks. It is very strong as an 'entity' but is very easily dented. I also laid some thick cork as a trackbed.

You need to assure the roadbed/baseboard top is perfectly flat (as you would with any baseboard). It can be susceptible to warping, but I found that if the foamcore was perfectly flat to begin with then it wasn't an issue. I acquired some secondhand sheets (from a local supermarket) that had a slight bend in them. This certainly curve exacerbated over time.

The lightweight 009 stock was fine. Heavy items (7mm scale for instance) may present more of a problem.

Ultimately, it lasted about 5/6 years did a dozen shows and survived being thrown about quite a bit!

Would I use it again? Possibly. But I think only for a micro/small layout.

It was a joy to finish an exhibition and walk out at 16:03 with the layout under one arm!! Only issue that it could almost blow away in a stiff wind!

Anyway, just my personal thoughts. My advice would be to make a little test baseboard (like my photo, if it has worked!) and see what you think. It is nice stuff to work with.

Dave

! .

 

[jonte]

A quick search reveals that I once posed a similar question:

Viability of foamboard baseboards?

This was prompted by a nagging thought that I’d once contributed to an article on this very subject. For the life of me, I couldn’t remember where or when, nor could any find any photographic proof.

For the sake of my sanity, thank the Good Lord for Google (other search engines etc etc....).

Having had a quick butcher’s, it looks like the proof is there for all to see as the thread was revisited a couple of years later when I took the opportunity to post developments. Looks like extremes of temperature didn’t affect it after all,so perhaps say loft-storage could be an option?

I eventually binned it during a well overdue clear out of my den early last summer. Still fine, if a bit dusty (sorry, but I didn’t bother photographing the evidence).

Considering I never got round to topping-off the frame, I think it wore quite well, though why I chose to fabricate the girders using block of softwood escapes me, as inserts of foam board would surely have done the same job, being laminated in an odd number ie 3 ply?

Anyway, posted in the hope that it might help with the decision making.

Best.

Jonte

 

[NHY 581]

I'm unlikely to use foamboard as a medium for base boards as, quite simply, I have a mistrust about their longevity and resistance to damage. I cannot base this on personal experience but once you have added thin ply for protection thereby adding to the weight then surely the advantages are seemingly lost.
I build my layouts to use as home layouts but also to exhibit, hence my use of 9mm MDF to box in my layouts and provide a degree of protection. Robust? Yes but I can move my usual 4ft x 16inch boards around the house when I need to.
In addition, Chris helpfully added information above about servos and I would worry about these being knocked off or dislodged if simply glued in place as I don't see how they can be screwed direct to the baseboard.

So at this stage, I'm not swayed sufficiently to try this for myself. A bit negative I know but I'm not seeing the benefits here. Happy to be convinced otherwise though.

Rob.

 

[jonte]

I'm unlikely to use foamboard as a medium for base boards as, quite simply, I have a mistrust about their longevity and resistance to damage. I cannot base this on personal experience but once you have added thin ply for protection thereby adding to the weight then surely the advantages are seemingly lost.
I build my layouts to use as home layouts but also to exhibit, hence my use of 9mm MDF to box in my layouts and provide a degree of protection. Robust? Yes but I can move my usual 4ft x 16inch boards around the house when I need to.
In addition, Chris helpfully added information above about servos and I would worry about these being knocked off or dislodged if simply glued in place as I don't see how they can be screwed direct to the baseboard.

So at this stage, I'm not swayed sufficiently to try this for myself. A bit negative I know but I'm not seeing the benefits here. Happy to be convinced otherwise though.

Rob.

Hi Rob.

You raise some good points and I wouldn’t say you’re being negative at all. Just cautious, which is why I never really progressed the exercise further than what you can see in the photos. I guess I didn’t trust it.

But to be fair, it didn’t warp - even using wood glue for the joints - and I doubt thin ply would add much in weight (you can get a really thin grade which would be ideal for providing a protective covering for the ends/sides etc.).

With regard to the siteing of point motors/ ancillaries etc below baseboard or elsewhere: gaps can be cut quite easily into the base over which sections of ply can be glued, to which ‘stuff’ can be screwed. In fact, if you have a look at the photos, Rob, you’ll see a couple of rectangular cut-outs on one side of the board across which I’d intended to glue some ply, and into which holes could be drilled for switches, push-button/ brass pins for probe switching/ controller etc.

I won’t bore you with this, but I reckon there’s also a way to connect separate baseboards perhaps by facing the ends with some aluminium plates that you can buy for doors in the likes of B&Q.

But that’s another story

Best.

Jonte

 

[David Hall]

Hi Rob.

You raise some good points and I wouldn’t say you’re being negative at all. Just cautious, which is why I never really progressed the exercise further than what you can see in the photos. I guess I didn’t trust it.

But to be fair, it didn’t warp - even using wood glue for the joints - and I doubt thin ply would add much in weight (you can get a really thin grade which would be ideal for providing a protective covering for the ends/sides etc.).

With regard to the siteing of point motors/ ancillaries etc below baseboard or elsewhere: gaps can be cut quite easily into the base over which sections of ply can be glued, to which ‘stuff’ can be screwed. In fact, if you have a look at the photos, Rob, you’ll see a couple of rectangular cut-outs on one side of the board across which I’d intended to glue some ply, and into which holes could be drilled for switches, push-button/ brass pins for probe switching/ controller etc.

I won’t bore you with this, but I reckon there’s also a way to connect separate baseboards perhaps by facing the ends with some aluminium plates that you can buy for doors in the likes of B&Q.

But that’s another story

Best.

Jonte

Jonte makes some excellent points.

That test baseboard of mine is over 10 years old. For the vast majority of that time it has either been stored in a garage or loft space. It is perfectly true and straight. No warping whatsoever.

My exhibition layout was very tired by the end. However, it was really just the usual wear and tear associated with a layout that is regular moved. I also admit I probably didn't treat is quite as well as I should have (see the throwing layout under the arm and running off comment earlier).

Adding to the servo advice, mounting heavier items such as a transformer, points motors etc is more problematic. Not insurmountable though.

My advice is make a little test board. See what you think. Nothing wasted except some foamboard and glue if you decide not to progress!

As an aside. I think we do (I'm guilty) over-engineer our baseboard sometimes. I'm always looking for lightweight, modern alternatives to the tradition manner.

Dave

 

[NHY 581]

I'm always looking for lightweight, modern alternatives to the tradition manner.

Dave

As we all are Dave.

My preferred option are table tops from IKEA.





These are LACK tables. £25 the pair in the photo.



I use the larger for my scenic boards. 120cm x 40cm x 5cm. Solid bottoms but though I haven't bothered, you could open up holes in the bottom to house servos etc. I have constructed three layouts thus far in this manner and have two more planned. Light and square.

This was an earlier plan which is to be resurrected for a layout this year. It shows how the table top is incorporated into the Cameo concept thing.




Rob.

 

[David Hall]

As we all are Dave.

My preferred option are table tops from IKEA.

View attachment 138638





These are LACK tables. £25 the pair in the photo.



I use the larger for my scenic boards. 120cm x 40cm x 5cm. Solid bottoms but though I haven't bothered, you could open up holes in the bottom to house servos etc. I have constructed three layouts thus far in this manner and have two more planned. Light and square.

This was an earlier plan which is to be resurrected for a layout this year. It shows how the table top is incorporated into the Cameo concept thing.


View attachment 138636

Rob.

Thanks Rob,

I've been out or this modelling game for some time but I remember admiring your work here (and elsewhere). Your use of said IKEA items is superb. I'm really impressed, and if I could achieve something half as good I would be a very happy fella. I work in 7mm scale, so the only thing that puts me off is the relative narrowness in a bigger scale. Still has diorama potential though.

Mind, I hope IKEA are paying you hefty royalties for daring to make such a magnificent job, all based on their humble furniture!

Dave

Edit - actually, at 40cm the width may actually be workable. Maybe I was thinking of the LACK sheleves?

 

[NHY 581]

Thanks Rob,

I've been out or this modelling game for some time but I remember admiring your work here (and elsewhere). Your use of said IKEA items is superb. I'm really impressed, and if I could achieve something half as good I would be a very happy fella. I work in 7mm scale, so the only thing that puts me off is the relative narrowness in a bigger scale. Still has diorama potential though.

Mind, I hope IKEA are paying you hefty royalties for daring to make such a magnificent job, all based on their humble furniture!

Dave

Edit - actually, at 40cm the width may actually be workable. Maybe I was thinking of the LACK sheleves?

Thank you those kind words Dave.

The IKEA LACK shelves are 26cm wide. Narrow in 4mm, really tricky in 7mm !!

An alternative I am looking at are these, also from IKEA.

LINNMON black-brown, Table top, 120x60 cm - IKEA

Unlike my normal table tops, these are not as deep, rather than 50mm they are 34 or 38mm, I forgot to look. As such, I think these would require some form of additional bracing to prevent twist or sag over time.

But cheap and light...

Rob.

 

[Tim Hale]

As with many questions there are a variety of answers, hardly any based on fact or experience therefore to test the pudding.........

The first board used Hobbycraft 5mm foamboard size A1, on offer at four sheets for £10. Assembled with a Bosch hot glue gun and following Harcourt’s principles, the 44”x13” board proved to be both light and just as resistant to torsional twist as a MDF board built as a benchmark.
The second board was built from Hobbycraft West Design black foamboard size A1 cost £7.70 per board. Exactly the same methods and the result was very rigid, a thoroughly good engineering material.
The next board will be built with the West Design material though I doubt whether the cheaper board will fail as long it is built correctly and there lies the rub.

Oddly enough, the pair of test modules were supported on a pair of lightweight ironing boards from John Lewis, perfect height, consistent performance and ideal for easy transporting as they just fold away.

Sorry not to have failed but the foamboard layout seems a viable contender, just as long as the builder has the skill to construct a simple device.

Stay Safe

 

[jonte]

As with many questions there are a variety of answers, hardly any based on fact or experience therefore to test the pudding.........

The first board used Hobbycraft 5mm foamboard size A1, on offer at four sheets for £10. Assembled with a Bosch hot glue gun and following Harcourt’s principles, the 44”x13” board proved to be both light and just as resistant to torsional twist as a MDF board built as a benchmark.
The second board was built from Hobbycraft West Design black foamboard size A1 cost £7.70 per board. Exactly the same methods and the result was very rigid, a thoroughly good engineering material.
The next board will be built with the West Design material though I doubt whether the cheaper board will fail as long it is built correctly and there lies the rub.

Oddly enough, the pair of test modules were supported on a pair of lightweight ironing boards from John Lewis, perfect height, consistent performance and ideal for easy transporting as they just fold away.

Sorry not to have failed but the foamboard layout seems a viable contender, just as long as the builder has the skill to construct a simple device.

Stay Safe

You seem disappointed with your response(s) BR ‘Group’.

I’m sure we were all well intended by sharing our experiences with this medium; albeit limited.

I know I was only doing my best to help your members with their prospective venture, so I’m sorry if my humble input failed to meet your expectation(s).

I wish you and your members every success with their venture, although I shall steer clear of responding to any future ‘group’ posts for fear of disappointing you all once again.

 

[NHY 581]

As with many questions there are a variety of answers, hardly any based on fact or experience therefore to test the pudding.........

The first board used Hobbycraft 5mm foamboard size A1, on offer at four sheets for £10. Assembled with a Bosch hot glue gun and following Harcourt’s principles, the 44”x13” board proved to be both light and just as resistant to torsional twist as a MDF board built as a benchmark.
The second board was built from Hobbycraft West Design black foamboard size A1 cost £7.70 per board. Exactly the same methods and the result was very rigid, a thoroughly good engineering material.
The next board will be built with the West Design material though I doubt whether the cheaper board will fail as long it is built correctly and there lies the rub.

Oddly enough, the pair of test modules were supported on a pair of lightweight ironing boards from John Lewis, perfect height, consistent performance and ideal for easy transporting as they just fold away.

Sorry not to have failed but the foamboard layout seems a viable contender, just as long as the builder has the skill to construct a simple device.

Stay Safe

Sorry but I beg to differ. I, along with the others, responded in good faith. I did so by way of giving my personal experience of what I saw as a viable alternative to a material I had no first hand experience of . As such, I accept that any doubts I expressed were based on my own lack of knowledge of the use of foam board.

That said, my responses were freely given and made without any expectation that you would either adopt my methods or fail in yours. Therefore your apologies for seemingly failing to fail are not required. Your phrasing seems to infer an expectation on my part that you would fail and that I would, in some way, draw satisfaction from this as a result.

Rest assured, nothing could be further from the truth and quite frankly, I find it odd that any such conclusion would be drawn.

You asked for comment in your opening post on the subject and as I see it, received it, not only from myself but from others who took an interest.
You also sought comment on point actuation, got it but it appears that this was deemed to be 'thread drift' and was not required either.

I am sorry to say, my interest has waned and like Jonte, whilst wishing you well, I find myself unable to comment further on the activities of 'the group'.


Rob.

 

[Tim Hale]

Moving on,

Two baseboards have been built albeit in plywood, this leaves a supply of unwanted 5mm foamboard. However, perhaps the foamboard could be utilised in place of cork roadbed covering for the baseboards, I wonder if anyone has arrived at a similar solution?

What adhesive is best suited to sticking large pieces of foamboard, not a big fan of PVA but I do have some tile adhesive…..

The remaining foamboard will be useful for a lightweight, removable backscene.

BR

 

[matto21]

I've used foamcore instead of the traditional cork to cover the baseboard on my layout. I glued it down to the ply with PVA. In my experience, there's no real benefit to using it over cork, it's no quieter running wise, but it's no worse either. It is easy to cut though.

 

[Tim Hale]

Matt,

Thanks but the essential word is ‘unwanted’ as I have surplus foamboard and the local DIY stores no longer stock cork tiles……btw silence doesn’t drive this issue just availability of materiel that is to hand.

BR