Gloucester 6 ton coal wagon

Discussion in 'G3' started by Jon Nazareth, 21 April 2020.

  1. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    I can see the side chains on the drawing but what is the extra chain on the right end? It looks like a fairly conventional coupling with the last link not fully drawn? And the fact that it is further out from the headstock suggests a fairly conventional hook, so what isn't compatible Jon?

    Mike
     
  2. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    The open link at the end of the chain looks like a shackle with the closing pin hanging down, on the end of the chain visible - it's also on the dumb buffered end, which may require a longer coupling chain to stop buffer locking on curves - just a thought ?
     
  3. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    Yes Arty, I can see that now. Thanks.

    Mike
     
  4. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Mike
    I'm not modelling the wagon in the photograph but the one in the drawing, they are different. The picture below shows the set up for the hooks and chains.
    While I'm here, does anyone know what the large W on the side of the wagon in the drawing represents?

    Jon

    IMG_4128.JPG
     
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  5. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    John
    The width is 6' 9".

    Jon
     
  6. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Mike, Arty,
    Sorry, I went off at half cock with my reply, I think that you are both right. The drawing above shows the two chains with some sort of eye between and the other end looks as if there is a hook in between the two chains. With a few links it would have made it quite doable and the same scheme could have been adopted for the other end. Maybe next time.

    Jon
     
  7. BG Rich

    BG Rich Member

    Jon,
    Further to a request from John Lewsey I post below a photo of my L&M 6 ton wagon. My memory failed me when I said that I had not included the brake lever. I had not finished the brakes or the tie-bar between the W irons either! It is made from 1.5 mm plywood with wood sections for the solebars, headstocks and axleboxes. The ironwork is all made from card with individual springs from decreasing sized strips glued together with Gum Arabic from the art shop. The lettering was done with a mapping pen and white ink. Not the best wagon I have ever made (or failed to complete!) but it does add an early period look to a short rake of wagons. I added some small squares of lead flashing underneath the body to aid track holding as it is so light otherwise.

    I hope you don't mind me putting this in your thread. Your wagon will undoubtedly be superior!
    Best wishes
    Rich
    PS re; the letter W on the body. I looked at page 77 in Coal Trade Wagons and the map shows the nearest colliery to Merthyr with a W in its name is "Taldwyn Wernlas Bwllfa, but that is from a map dated 1934. There is also Lady Windsor colliery a few miles over at Mountain Ash. Lots of small collieries could and did close after relatively short working lives, so perhaps the W is from one of those? A strange thing about the Locket's 1884 wagon I mentioned above is that it says empty to Mardy (English? Maerdy -Welsh?)) colliery, Taff Vale Railway, yet the only Mardy Colliery that I can see on the map is next to Gwauncaegurwen colliery which is several valleys over from Merthyr near Brynaman. To add to the complexity I don't think the TVR went that far west in Wales. I have a feeling that the complexity of Welsh coal and anthracite mining is worth a whole ten volumes of research. So much of the history is just gone. When I used to take school trips to a cottage in the Forestry land above Ystradgynlais I was amazed that there was no sign of collieries in the valley leading towards Brecon. I only realised about the mining history when I saw a model wagon with Ystradgynlais and Ynyscedwyn on the side!
    Not much help but interesting to research!

    Locket n Marychurch non door end.jpg
     
  8. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Rich
    Did you base your model on the drawing or did you have a photo or both? No, I don't mind at all that you have added this to the thread, the more the merrier.

    Jon
     
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  9. BG Rich

    BG Rich Member

    Jon,
    Thanks for not minding my intrusion.

    I am afraid that I went on the drawing only. I made a reasoned guess that the colour 'dark' listed on the back cover would have been a dark grey. The source of the drawing was the Gloster Wagon Co photos numbers 3 and 15 from 1862 according to the box in the corner of the page. Were those the photos from HMRS that you tried to order and that are unobtainable during the shut down? When you finally get hold of the photos and make your judgement on the colour I may well have another go at making a second one. My lettering may improve a bit by then, too, not to mention fitting the brakes! "Coal Trade Wagons" has such a lot of interesting short wheelbase wagon drawings - could keep me occupied for years.
    Best wishes
    Rich
     
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  10. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    And another unfinished short Welsh Glo'ster wagon.
    Ocean 1128 IMG_9226.jpg
    Built sometime around 1995 based on this photo from Railways of Wales published by the National Museum of Wales in 1990. Still without sole bar ironwork and any brake gear at all. The 'weathering' is just some powders slapped on before an exhibition appearance to make it less obvious that it isn't complete. It was built to practice lettering and it shows more practice was needed. Another one to finish sometime.
    Ocean 1128 IMG_9223.jpg
     
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  11. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    Hi can I ask which axle boxes they are
    John
     
  12. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    I don't know. They are one piece white metal w irons with the springs and axle boxes included. I have several sets in their original plastic bags marked GCR and £1.60. Not sure if they were bought at an exhibition or maybe from Home of O Gauge. The ones in the bags are decaying really badly so I wouldn't recommend searching for them. Hopefully the ones on the wagon stay in one piece.

    I wasn't going to photograph them but as people like photos here they are-
    IMG_0719 copy.jpg IMG_0721 copy.jpg
    Not pretty. I have only kept them to monitor the rate of decomposition.
     
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  13. Michael Osborne

    Michael Osborne Western Thunderer

    Are these possible by CCW ?
    They may be available from JPL models who have a large range but the moulds are now very old.
     
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  14. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    It's quite tempting to make a few of these
    John
     
  15. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Fraser,

    Is the decomposition similar to that seen in mazak/zamak when the melt is contaminated by lead?

    the chemistry must be different, as the wm contains lead by design in most cases.

    Atb
    Simon
     
  16. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    I haven't taken them out of the bags so far but I will and will have a look under the microscope. Through the bags it looks like the whitemetal has crystallised and turned into grains of grey sugar. It doesn't seem to be expanding like mazak does. More later.
     
  17. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    Ugly photos. One casting seems OK, the others are not good.
    whitemetal1.jpg
    whitemetal4.jpg
    whitemetal2.jpg
    whitemetal3.jpg
    Technical issues with the PC connected to the microscope camera meant I couldn't take any higher magnification images. The last two images were taken with a cheap usb microscope camera at different magnifications.

    Sorry for the thread drift.
     
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  18. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Tis I who should apologise for the drift!

    thanks for the pictures, most odd, I was unaware of that kind of degradation.

    Atb
    Simon
     
  19. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Rich
    I'm not sure about the photographs as I don't think that the reference numbers tally.
    I'm trying to sort out the brakes at the moment but I'm not sure how they operate. The drawing isn't clear and the photographs are too dark to see what the levers are doing. Can anyone help? I'm sure that there is someone out there with a more mechanical mind than the one that I have :)

    Jon
     
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  20. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Looking at the photo on page 1, I can see that if the lever is pushed down to release the brakes, the right hand shoe would swing away from the wheel but, I can't see how the left hand shoe would release. There must be some sort of linkage that makes the left hand shoe do the same as looking at the picture as it is, it looks as if it would do the opposite.

    Jon