Buckjumper
Flying Squad
In the words of Silas Wegg;
'No, it can hardly be said that I have tried it, I have just skimmed it. Skimmed it.'
'No, it can hardly be said that I have tried it, I have just skimmed it. Skimmed it.'
Hartley Hills, LNWR c1900 - buffer stops, how do you build yours?
- Thread starter Dog Star
- Start date
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Touche! I salute you Sir.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Even though my last post was several weeks back, time and progress have not stood still in Hartley Hills.... Christmas came and Christmas went and much Ale was drunk in the "Slug and Tractor". Old Albert was in good voice and would bore the proverbial off of who ever was foolish enough to ask if "another?" was the order of the day. Actually there was a dashed and spiffing good reason for merry-making on Albert's part... Father Niklaus had taken pity on the miserable old bu**er, sorry ganger, and replaced his long-lost pocket book of switch and crossing notes. Now when we first visited Hartley Hills all of the turnouts had been laid to the late Victorian ideas to be found in the Report on the 1900 International Railway Congress and that was Albert's Bible even though there were rumours of change carried on the northerly winds from Crewe. Much to Albert's surprise the gift of the festive season was just what he wanted - official drawings of Edwardian LNWR Switch and Crossing work dated 1909!
What Albert is going to do with this new pocket book and the information within depends, I guess, upon how much Ale he consumes before the next visit of the District Inspector. I hope to be able to say shortly, for at this moment Albert is down the PW yard with a couple of the lads... the sound of the cross-cut saw, the adze and the borer suggest that some new timbers are being prepared for immediate use (to be followed by an extended visit to the local).
Just when we thought that we had got going.... we had to stop. Hypothetically, that is... well, actually buffer stops. Hartley Hills needs several buffer stops and given the development of the station layout there are some stops of recent vintage, fresh out of Crewe works. I posted a query to the 7mm and HMRS Yahoo groups enquiring about availabilty of kits and a reply from Peter Stanton pointed me in the direction of a resin cast item by Port Wynnstay. This seemed a good idea even though I am not sure about the survivability of resin buffer stops given the momemtum of 7mm stock. As if reading my thoughts, I received an offer from Jim Snowdon for some metal parts for LNWR buffer stops of a style which is compatible with the period of Hartley Hills. E-mails exchanged and agreement reached.... so in return for a donation to the Hillingdon MRC club funds I received sufficent parts to make three examples, and here is a photo of some of the bits and piece for one example:-
The prototype has one long rail to the outside... and one short rail to the inside... of each running rail. OK there are some short straight lengths not in the photo, neither is the buffer beam (which I have to supply). The nice touch here is the brass etchings - the large plates are affixed either side of the joint between uprights and running rail whilst the small plates are formed into L-angles to attach the buffer beam to the uprights.
For those who are interested in big 7mm round-round layouts then have a look at the Hillingdon MRC page for Grindley Brook.
regards, Graham
What Albert is going to do with this new pocket book and the information within depends, I guess, upon how much Ale he consumes before the next visit of the District Inspector. I hope to be able to say shortly, for at this moment Albert is down the PW yard with a couple of the lads... the sound of the cross-cut saw, the adze and the borer suggest that some new timbers are being prepared for immediate use (to be followed by an extended visit to the local).
Just when we thought that we had got going.... we had to stop. Hypothetically, that is... well, actually buffer stops. Hartley Hills needs several buffer stops and given the development of the station layout there are some stops of recent vintage, fresh out of Crewe works. I posted a query to the 7mm and HMRS Yahoo groups enquiring about availabilty of kits and a reply from Peter Stanton pointed me in the direction of a resin cast item by Port Wynnstay. This seemed a good idea even though I am not sure about the survivability of resin buffer stops given the momemtum of 7mm stock. As if reading my thoughts, I received an offer from Jim Snowdon for some metal parts for LNWR buffer stops of a style which is compatible with the period of Hartley Hills. E-mails exchanged and agreement reached.... so in return for a donation to the Hillingdon MRC club funds I received sufficent parts to make three examples, and here is a photo of some of the bits and piece for one example:-
The prototype has one long rail to the outside... and one short rail to the inside... of each running rail. OK there are some short straight lengths not in the photo, neither is the buffer beam (which I have to supply). The nice touch here is the brass etchings - the large plates are affixed either side of the joint between uprights and running rail whilst the small plates are formed into L-angles to attach the buffer beam to the uprights.
For those who are interested in big 7mm round-round layouts then have a look at the Hillingdon MRC page for Grindley Brook.
regards, Graham
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Would make a natty disaster movie though; a coal tank ploughing through the stops in slo-mo to the swell of violins, resin flying everywhere, violins glissando...
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Sorry, can't talk; I'm the leader of a renegade clique!
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
When we left Hartley Hills yesterday Albert and some local lads were down in the PW yard. The noise from saws and other tools went on late into the night as timbers were prepared for use on the morrow. Albert was keen to try out his new found interest - how to lay out switches and crossings according to Crewe's latest instructions (for new readers, Albert had received a late Christmas gift, a copy of some official LNWR PW drawings dated 1909).
The distinct lack of traffic through the station suggested that Albert had occupation of the down main and that was just the case for as I strolled down the ramp at the end of the platform I could see that the lads had been busy.... all of the spent ballast around the down main to down platform loop had been dug out and carried away. More than that, the old 30' rails and 14" timbers had been lifted from No.1A (see station plan in the initial post to this thread) and their place had been taken by some fresh-cut 12" timbers, clearly Albert and the gang had been busy although things were quiet at the moment for the PW gang were at lunch.
I spoke to Albert a few days ago and he informed me that the new instructions caused him all sorts of bother when setting the timbers out.... apparently the joints for circa 1909 practice occur at different places in the stock and closure rails when compared to the pre-1900 practice and so the arrangement of timbers changes as well. This difference was obvious when I studied the ballast bed for one could see where the bed had been squared-up to provide a firm foundation for the new timbers. At least I can print what Albert told me about the timber arrangement - his views on the new stock and closures are just not printable. You see, Albert and his lads could just about manage to lift one of the old 30'rails - the stuff which had been dropped in the 6-foot last week was to the new standard of 60' rails and Albert had had to call in a favour from the next gang along the line. With no love lost between gangers, George,who looked after the Grindley Brook length, had extracted a high price for lending some extra hands for lifting those longer rails.
Out of interest, some photographs of the new timbering arrangement were taken and I have had the film developed just so you can see what has excited old Albert.... more timbers to lay and more chairs to fix means a better rate for the job, Albert says that means more time in the pub. You can see one consequence of his new pocket book... Albert has had to put in some long timbers for blocking through into the carriage siding. This bit of work has yet to be completed, I understand that Albert and George are deep in discussion as to how to run the 12" timbering from No. 1A through into the 14" timbering of No.1B.
At this point I think that we shall leave Albert and George for I have run out of film, it looks like rain and lunch calls. Albert has promised to send a lad to fetch me when the gang gets round to putting in the switches.
Returning to something approaching normality - although Mr. Richard has his doubts if that is ever possible in which case I am quite glad that Heyside is L&Y rather than L&NWR.... I know nothing about Lanky track.
The first picture has been taken "wrong-line" on the down main to show the 60' radius curve of the down main on the model.... the temptation to lay timbers to a straight line must be resisted! Quite by accident, resulting from the down main and carriage siding being curved, there is a rail joint between the two blocked through timbers, hence those timbers appear to be closer together when compared with the remainder of the turnout.
The second photograph shows the entry into the down loop from across the up main, as with the blocked timbers there is a rail joint just to the left of the vee point hence the timbers are spaced more closely (timbers 8 and 9 from RHS).
The various jottings on the template are my notes as to the placing of rail joints and rail feeds.
regards, Graham
The distinct lack of traffic through the station suggested that Albert had occupation of the down main and that was just the case for as I strolled down the ramp at the end of the platform I could see that the lads had been busy.... all of the spent ballast around the down main to down platform loop had been dug out and carried away. More than that, the old 30' rails and 14" timbers had been lifted from No.1A (see station plan in the initial post to this thread) and their place had been taken by some fresh-cut 12" timbers, clearly Albert and the gang had been busy although things were quiet at the moment for the PW gang were at lunch.
I spoke to Albert a few days ago and he informed me that the new instructions caused him all sorts of bother when setting the timbers out.... apparently the joints for circa 1909 practice occur at different places in the stock and closure rails when compared to the pre-1900 practice and so the arrangement of timbers changes as well. This difference was obvious when I studied the ballast bed for one could see where the bed had been squared-up to provide a firm foundation for the new timbers. At least I can print what Albert told me about the timber arrangement - his views on the new stock and closures are just not printable. You see, Albert and his lads could just about manage to lift one of the old 30'rails - the stuff which had been dropped in the 6-foot last week was to the new standard of 60' rails and Albert had had to call in a favour from the next gang along the line. With no love lost between gangers, George,who looked after the Grindley Brook length, had extracted a high price for lending some extra hands for lifting those longer rails.
Out of interest, some photographs of the new timbering arrangement were taken and I have had the film developed just so you can see what has excited old Albert.... more timbers to lay and more chairs to fix means a better rate for the job, Albert says that means more time in the pub. You can see one consequence of his new pocket book... Albert has had to put in some long timbers for blocking through into the carriage siding. This bit of work has yet to be completed, I understand that Albert and George are deep in discussion as to how to run the 12" timbering from No. 1A through into the 14" timbering of No.1B.
At this point I think that we shall leave Albert and George for I have run out of film, it looks like rain and lunch calls. Albert has promised to send a lad to fetch me when the gang gets round to putting in the switches.
Returning to something approaching normality - although Mr. Richard has his doubts if that is ever possible in which case I am quite glad that Heyside is L&Y rather than L&NWR.... I know nothing about Lanky track.
The first picture has been taken "wrong-line" on the down main to show the 60' radius curve of the down main on the model.... the temptation to lay timbers to a straight line must be resisted! Quite by accident, resulting from the down main and carriage siding being curved, there is a rail joint between the two blocked through timbers, hence those timbers appear to be closer together when compared with the remainder of the turnout.
The second photograph shows the entry into the down loop from across the up main, as with the blocked timbers there is a rail joint just to the left of the vee point hence the timbers are spaced more closely (timbers 8 and 9 from RHS).
The various jottings on the template are my notes as to the placing of rail joints and rail feeds.
regards, Graham
Tony West
Western Thunderer
...but have you the necessary clearance to gauge opinion ??Sorry, can't talk; I'm the leader of a renegade clique!
......slips quietly back into bunker......
Cheers Tony.
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
I haven't the faintest idea what some of these jottings about Albert and his gang are on about, but they make wonderful reading.....
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
In short... the templates are laid out to REA geometry with 45' rails and curved switches... Hartley Hills is being built with trackwork that gives an impression of LNWR circa 1910 and that means 30' and 60' rails with straight cut, loose heel switches. Ok, Ok Mr. Richard, stop laughing....
"Over there", there has been a topic running for aeons, I think the title is something like "is trackwork the poor relation?". There are pages of the stuff, oodles of comments and most of it is about making something of Peco track. The best bit of the thread is a post suggesting that Network Rail relays the entire network to 4' 1.5" gauge and then the appearance of the commercial products becomes accurate (prototypically). Actually the best bit is that no-one paid any notice at all to posts from Adrian (Buckjumper) highlighting what is possible in regard to representing the prototype.
Today I have been having a nightmare of a time in trying to work out just what Albert would have done with the piece of track which joins No. 1A (1909 practice with 12" timbering at 2'6" centres) and No.1B (1900 practice with 14" timbering and 2'9" centres). The underlying problem is the blocked through timbers, those which run under more than one turnout - in this case those timbers support the diverging road of No. 1A, the joining plain line and the diverging road of No. 1B.... and not forgetting the first half dozen sleepers of the carriage siding. In the world of Hartley Hills the down main is being relaid (hence new timbers) whilst the down loop is being left (to veg out in today's parlance) - hence the conflict of practices because some of the 14" blocked timbers get replaced by 12" material... and the timber centres are "all-a-****".
.... ok, there is a topical joke with the ending of " ...I fudges it."; I tried that and the result was visually like spaghetti with tummy ache.
regards, Graham
[actually, I am expecting a missive from Adrian who might, if the has time off from his other job as Night Watchman in Basilica Fields, produce a family tree for Albert and Harriet - possibly, eh Everette?]
"Over there", there has been a topic running for aeons, I think the title is something like "is trackwork the poor relation?". There are pages of the stuff, oodles of comments and most of it is about making something of Peco track. The best bit of the thread is a post suggesting that Network Rail relays the entire network to 4' 1.5" gauge and then the appearance of the commercial products becomes accurate (prototypically). Actually the best bit is that no-one paid any notice at all to posts from Adrian (Buckjumper) highlighting what is possible in regard to representing the prototype.
Today I have been having a nightmare of a time in trying to work out just what Albert would have done with the piece of track which joins No. 1A (1909 practice with 12" timbering at 2'6" centres) and No.1B (1900 practice with 14" timbering and 2'9" centres). The underlying problem is the blocked through timbers, those which run under more than one turnout - in this case those timbers support the diverging road of No. 1A, the joining plain line and the diverging road of No. 1B.... and not forgetting the first half dozen sleepers of the carriage siding. In the world of Hartley Hills the down main is being relaid (hence new timbers) whilst the down loop is being left (to veg out in today's parlance) - hence the conflict of practices because some of the 14" blocked timbers get replaced by 12" material... and the timber centres are "all-a-****".
.... ok, there is a topical joke with the ending of " ...I fudges it."; I tried that and the result was visually like spaghetti with tummy ache.
regards, Graham
[actually, I am expecting a missive from Adrian who might, if the has time off from his other job as Night Watchman in Basilica Fields, produce a family tree for Albert and Harriet - possibly, eh Everette?]
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Greatly enjoying the storyline, despite getting headache at the technical explanations
- now where are my simple bits of pipe?
- now where are my simple bits of pipe?
Tony West
Western Thunderer
I would have thought that 'best practice' would have been to relay the entire crossover, bearing in mind the full width timbers and conflicting centres, also bearing in mind that this involves a main running line.
A further thought !, werent loop lines and sidings set back from running lines a distance of 11ft, at this time( based on GCR research and assumed to be BOT regs), which would remove the 'full'timber conflict, whereas running lines had the usual 6ft between ....or did the 'nor' western have a 'different' approach ?.
Cheers Tony.
28ten
Guv'nor
Dont worry Im sat next youI haven't the faintest idea what some of these jottings about Albert and his gang are on about, but they make wonderful reading.....
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Is this the first recorded instance of the Guv'nor sitting in the back row? Clearly Jordan is wrong, the back row has status in the world of WT.Dont worry Im sat next you
28ten
Guv'nor
Nah, as soon as anybody starts talking MERG type stuff, complicated trackwork, or maths im at the back
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
And just where did I mention any of that sort of pornography?Nah, as soon as anybody starts talking MERG type stuff, complicated trackwork, or maths im at the back
From the very start I declared that I could not cope with the maths required to set out the versines and the transitions... so I did the next best thing and fudged it (like we did before digital this, that and the other). As for complicated trackwork, maybe we all ought to ask Jim (BNS) if he could fix it for us?
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
Dont worry Im sat next you
me too - getting as crowded here as at the back of the class
cheers
Mike
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
These comments give the impression that trackwork is the poor relation "over here" as well as "over there".... if that be the case then maybe I shall give Albert a holiday. Mind you, with the talent which is gathering at the back of the class there is a good chance that he might just show up there - after all, Albert is known to a current occupant as he had a spell of sorting out the decrepitude of Weeping Angels yard (and managed to lose his pocket book whilst drinking in the tavern just round the corner from Sid Snot's statue).