mickoo
Western Thunderer
Cheers, but it's anything but easy sad to say.
7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Okay, this is a hard call, being a commercial developer myself then poor feedback can be uncomfortable and finger pointing kettle/black easily leveled so I'll try to be impartial and honest.
There's two types of fault for want of a better word, there's bits that simply don't fit and there's bit's that could be designed differently and on the whole Scorpio kits do not suffer the former. They are hand drawn so there is the inherent lack of accuracy when compared to modern CAD drawn artwork but not overly so, there are significantly worse kits out there.
They're also an extensive range and long in the tooth and there will be many who have had no issue with them at all, for hobby builders where time is not a factor then the niggles are run of the mill, for commercial builders they're a frustration when trying to meet budgets.
The chassis is of a thin material and until fully built quite flexible making them hard work to set up, I add a 3D ashpan which significantly strengthens that area. There is a kit ash pan but I've not found one that fits (I may be doing something wrong) and it's a combination of several parts that need to be folded and joined, there are no slots and tabs so it's a case of tacking here and there and adjusting till it fits.
There are footplate brackets that do fit in slots in the frames but they appear to be at different centres to the axles, not much but only noticeable when you add the brakes, some shoes are closer than others so you alter the angles to suit and then find the tail (lower) ends do not line up with the pull rods.
The white metal hanger brackets that fit to the brackets I find weak and the brake hangers are often poorly cast (tired moulds maybe) but then newer kits might have better castings. I've no idea when this kit was produced and packed so you have to be careful leveling poor castings, it could be the last kit they packed before new moulds were procured. I always replace the brake gear with 3D prints and beef up the hanger bracket and make it part of the hanger as well as extending it to the chassis face, then I use a 12BA screw from the inside to secure all and make sturdy.
The compensation beams I find very thin and flex under load resulting in wheels jamming and motion binding, in reality they need a strip of 0.7 mm adding to them to strengthen them; in this instance we went for full rigid chassis and it's smooth as silk. One thing to be aware of when using the compensation beams then all the axle holes line up with the rod centres, you do have to open out the middle and rear holes in the frames to allow the bearings to move but they're all fine. However, with a rigid chassis the middle axle hole is not correctly placed/marked, it needs to move forward about 0.5 mm, you don't notice this with compensation beams as you just open the holes out for clearance.
The compensation beam bearings are cast brass, they just fall through the holes in the chassis so I always turn new ones up when needed.
The kit covers lots of variants, it's good in that sort of way, but, it means that the instructions and etches are a huge mish mash of information and changes needed for each specific class, you'll need to do a lot of trimming and careful rivet punching but the instructions do help a lot, you think they don't on first pass but the information is all there if you read everything.
So to CMA (Cover My Ass) again, the kit is designed in 1985 and hand drawn, all the above is perfectly normal fair and can be built with care and patience.
The body is pretty much like the chassis, of an era long gone, there are no slots and tabs to aid positioning, there are however raised sections inside key areas where you butt the vertical plates up to as an aid to alignment, again care is needed to make everything neat and square. The cab front is a touch narrow so there's a small gap at the joint, you can't move the side sheets in due to the step in the floor so you need to chamfer the base to let the side move in enough to touch the cab front, we're only talking 0.3 or so mm but it makes a huge visual difference and perfectly vertical cab sides; this is important later when you add the tanks and get a neat joint between the two.
On the left the kit out of the box, blue is cab front, red cab side and black the floor. On the right the chamfered base allows the side to move closer to the front and form a neat joint. You also have to do this with the smokebox saddle sides or else they will stick out too far either side of the front sheets.
Bends, personally I'm not in favour of bend relief lines on the inside of the metal work, having said that I did add them to the B1 kit but the bend lines are very thin 0.2 mm and an area that is easily smoothed later, that was a design choice at the time and not one I'd make now nine years later. The tank sides have long etch horizontal relief lines (about 1 mm or so wide) interspersed with full thickness vertical sections, these are where the rivets are and half etched holes are provided and here is where I ran into a wall.
There may be ways to form the tank and rivets but it's beyond me, I know that forming the tank bends will leave fold witness marks on the outside (and it did big time), much like a clinker built boat; these need to be dressed smooth and that is impossible if you've pushed all the rivets out, conversely if you fold and smooth then you can't get a rivet press inside to punch out the rivets. The same applies to the bunker rear though in this case most rivets are away form the bend so with care you can dress smooth and not damage adjoining rivets.
Luckily for me the client opted to change engine and go for a smooth sided pannier tank, the alternative would be to cut new tank sides in full thickness, punch all the rivets out and then form, that's the only real way (I know of) to make smooth tank sides with good bends and rivet detail.
In this particular kit the beaded splasher sides are an overlay in just the shape of the beading, they're too small and several were damaged in the box, hence the solid face seen. On other kits (Saddle tank versions) the beaded sides are full plates with half etch beading and they fit perfectly so there is clearly some kit evolution going on which is a positive sign.
The pannier tank sides form up well (given the above) and you must take care with the joint to the white metal top/back bone section, my lump was not the best it could have been so needed some fetteling and straightening up.
So CMA time again, the kit is from 1985 and hand drawn, everything fits but needs some care and tweaking which is par for the course for kits of this era, there are some design attribute which I (personal and subjective) would prefer done another way, again this is mainly down to kit evolution in the ensuing 40+ years.
The kit offers a mind boggling array of variations out of the box and sometimes that's a minor negative point, especially if the inner face is exposed like the cab sides, there are a lot of half etched holes and annotations that need filling to make smooth once you've pushed out your require rivets, nothing overtly bad in that, just something to be mindful of.
I'm acutely aware being a commercial developer that the cost to change some of the parts (slot & tab) and bend line methodology to modern build philosophy is almost certainly not cost effective this late in the day.
To close, in 1985 this would have been a very good kit, in 2026 it's grand old dame.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Yeah the bunker requires some care, I've been here before several times so getting the hang of it now.....maybe not
Normally I'd use D section half hard brass but the smallest I had was 0.8 mm and it looked a bit too chunky, the kit suggests 0.5 mm wire so having some 0.4 mm copper wire I just added that. I thought it'd look too small but actually it looks pretty much spot on.
I didn't spare the solder so it formed a decent fillet at the joint and then I just cleaned up with buffing balls and tools to get a neat small clean fillet, once painted it'll look like D section.
This mornings task is to gloop in some heavy weight gap filling solder to the corners and then dress back smooth, I'm not concerned about the interior as it'll get a full load of coal which helps the work load.
garethashenden
Western Thunderer
Having read your review of the Scorpio kit, and not knowing the 7mm market at all, the question I'm left with is; Is there a better option?
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well there's the crux of the matter, quite often there isn't.
In this case I'm not sure, GWR is not my anorak I'm sad to say.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Once again, time to kick the B17 can down the street a little more, footplate and cab structures all sorted, just need to go back and add any details or little holes for bits and bobs.
The cab roof is done but not rendered, tomorrow is cab floor of which there are there's two types to match the different tenders, GST and GER so that'll take a bit of head scratching to minimize part duplication.
The cab roof is done but not rendered, tomorrow is cab floor of which there are there's two types to match the different tenders, GST and GER so that'll take a bit of head scratching to minimize part duplication.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Finally there with this etch sheet, I've not added all the little details to the renders, just bulk shapes and there's only room for the GER tender cab floor, the GST will have to go on the next sheet which is primarily the kettle bit, ash pan and some sweep up sundries here and there.
Hopefully this sheet will get back in time for a test build ready for the open day in Apr.
Hopefully this sheet will get back in time for a test build ready for the open day in Apr.
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Finally finished all the 0.4 mm etches for the Urie S15 and test rendered. I do have to say that making a 3D model from the etch outlines, does show little errors here and there before the expense of getting sheet metal processed. That doesn't mean to say there won't be niggles or alterations in the artwork from the test build; or places where I let Captain cock and his crew make merry!
The 2D and 3D CAD is very digital and etches (especially complex fold up assemblies) behave slightly differently in metal.
Light grey is nickel silver, yellow is brass or wire, red are planned as resin but may change later.
Note chassis is already done and test built, were just looking here at the upper works, I should really have separated them but wanted to see if the two fitted digitally.
I still need to draw up the main springs and hangers and bogie leaf springs, main axles will be cast brass, bogie undecided at this moment.
The 2D and 3D CAD is very digital and etches (especially complex fold up assemblies) behave slightly differently in metal.
Light grey is nickel silver, yellow is brass or wire, red are planned as resin but may change later.
Note chassis is already done and test built, were just looking here at the upper works, I should really have separated them but wanted to see if the two fitted digitally.
I still need to draw up the main springs and hangers and bogie leaf springs, main axles will be cast brass, bogie undecided at this moment.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Yeah, full of hot air
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Top of your roster I'd say
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Another quick B17 project update, the cab and footplate test etches arrived today, also a shot of the first castings progress arrived too, hopefully they'll get there this week so I can put it all together, see what doesn't fit, make changes and sign off.
I also found yesterday another drawing that depicts the earlier air and steam braked variants, too many changes to the frames to put it all in the same box so will work up a new chassis (and other detail changes) as a stand alone/alongside model.
I also found yesterday another drawing that depicts the earlier air and steam braked variants, too many changes to the frames to put it all in the same box so will work up a new chassis (and other detail changes) as a stand alone/alongside model.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Stage point on the Urie S15, tender complete and 0.4 mm body etches complete (as they were the other day). I tend to sit on an etch sheet for a few days as more often than not something pops into your head that needs a tweak or change, or, you want to double check something.
As per normal something did pop up, tender brake rigging, as far as I can tell there is none bar one piece in the current kit of which I've little clue where it goes. Therefore the next task is to whizz some up and find space for it on the etch sheet sat here to go. No progress on the engine as I need to focus on the B17 for the coming week.
As per normal something did pop up, tender brake rigging, as far as I can tell there is none bar one piece in the current kit of which I've little clue where it goes. Therefore the next task is to whizz some up and find space for it on the etch sheet sat here to go. No progress on the engine as I need to focus on the B17 for the coming week.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
This weeks main event started yesterday, the B17 part deux, or more appropriately, fixing previous cock ups and making new ones.
So far nothing overly untoward other than the LH cylinder carcass being damaged on the outer face, the original one was fine so I'll pull that one, remove the 3D test prints and replace with the new brass ones in due course.
More in due course.
So far nothing overly untoward other than the LH cylinder carcass being damaged on the outer face, the original one was fine so I'll pull that one, remove the 3D test prints and replace with the new brass ones in due course.
More in due course.