Nick Dunhill's workshop - Highland Railway banker (X Class) from a Lochgorm Kit

[RichardG]

Turned out that the kit footplate etching is 2 mm too short, as are the valences (and the chassis frames).

Nick, supposing you had accepted the 2 mm error in the footplate, would the count of kit parts used been any higher? I am wondering how much scratch building you are doing to make a model 2 mm longer than the kit designer intended.

 

[Nick Dunhill]

It might be possible to build a model from the kit, perhaps someone else has and could answer your question.

I started by trying to make the rods (as I always do, to enable me to get the correct axlebox spacings). The rod etchings were frankly s***, so I got some replacements etched. Then I had to rework the chassis to S7 standards, but the chassis frames were so bad that it was easier/quicker/cheaper to cut out new ones. The best source of measurements for new frames was the GA, which is where the problems begin.

Would you have cut frames that enabled you to make the rest of the model from the kit parts despite the (cavernous) shortcomings?

 

[simond]

I guess it depends if you’re trying to build a model of a particular (class of) loco or build a kit.

 

[RichardG]

Would you have cut frames that enabled you to make the rest of the model from the kit parts despite the (cavernous) shortcomings?

Maybe.

I try to scale from photos, taking something like a wheel diameter as a reference. I have always regarded GA drawings as technical sketches, because they exist to show how things relate to each other, not the dimensions to which parts are to be made. I have never tried to take a dimension from a GA; rather I have used such drawings to help me better understand what I can see in a photograph.

I don't know why the kit designer has lost the two millimetres - it might be carelessness or it might be to fit the parts onto the sheet or some other reason. I do know, I am building merely my fourth 7 mm loco kit, and I am doing it for myself not a customer. I am learning how to see compromises made by designers, and to understand why they are there, and to make judgements of my own as to whether to make things "better" or accept what I have bought.

To my mind, you are presenting this kit as being almost completely hopeless. Supposing the kit builds a model 2 mm too short, and you are having to build new frames with new rods, I suspect you could choose to carefully lose the two millimetres of error and build a model which looks great as long as no-one puts a rule against it.

What I do not know is what your customer is expecting. You give the impression that the missing two millimetres is a terrible thing; but I am not seeing why it is as bad as you are making out. If I was a professional modelmaker then I guess I would ask the customer whether they wanted a kit-built model a bit too short or to pay extra for a true-to-scale model, and then make the new parts to optimise for one or the other. So really, I would be offloading the decision onto the customer.

Hence my "maybe" . . . but in reality, my answer is neither. I am a hobbyist not a pro; I would capitulate, put the kit on eBay and cut my losses. I will enjoy seeing how this all comes together

 

[paulc]

Ignorance is bliss .
I had a mate who taught me to scratchbuild locos . He would occasionally try to build a loco kit but like Nick most of it would end up in the bin . It wasn't that the parts were wrong , just that they didn't fit together the way he would build a model loco and he had built a lot of locos .
I think Nick would be better off just scratchbuilding, it would certainly reduce his stress level although it would mean less beer money from all the scrap brass that he takes to the recyclers .

 

[Nick Dunhill]

The brief was to build the kit with inside motion, and to quite a high spec, in line with the other models I have made for him. I did offload the decision to go down this route to the client, and he was happy to proceed.

As I understand Lochgorm Kits are quite old now, and were designed in an era where the bar was much lower. I suspect that you are right in that the designer probably scaled the kit from a drawing, and wasn't aware of hidden details revealed in the GA. He's prepared a line drawing (reproduced in the instructions) and hand drawn the etches to suit.

Now I agree that the smaller details of the build will have been open to 'interpretation' in the erecting shop, but the basic dimensions of the loco would be as the GA, which was completed before the loco was built.

Would argue that it is less work to just build to the dimensions on the drawing. I know where all the frame stays should go, and how everything fits round them. If you cut the inside motion rods to the dimensions in the GA it will work.

Having built the chassis, the kit footplate was unsuitable. It was continuous under the boiler and noticeably too short (as were the valences). So, again it is easier/quicker/cheaper to make a new one. I am always looking to see if kit panels can be modified, but if they are too small it is always better to cut new ones. Similarly having made the footplate the right length the cab, bunker and tanks need altering. The cab now falls in the correct location, so the boiler will be wrong. Etc etc.

Having agreed a way forward and crucially a ballpark price, the rest is easy plain sailing. I wouldn't have bothered buying the kit, but it was probably only a couple of hundred quid (maybe 8 hours work at my rate) and may yield 8 hours worth of parts. Fundamentally, an old school kit like this was never going to produce a model of the standard required.

 

[Nick Dunhill]

Just realised that I monologued above and didn't answer your question. If I were building the loco for myself (I havent built a loco for myself for 30 years) I would have gone down the same route as above and make it as detailed as I could. There's also no guarantee that the kit would actually build a decent model, we buy etched kits expecting them to be flawless and go together like an Airfix kit or Lego set and more often they don't.

If I'd woken up in the morning and decided to make a HR X Class I would have looked up who made a kit, spotted it was a Lochgorm kit and scratchbuilt one.

 

[RichardG]

It is nearly two years since I completed a loco. The Slater's MW could have put me off kit building for life, but eventually I remembered how much I enjoyed building Nellie and the Y14. I must remember, I have the luxury of choosing kits which do go together as the basis of my own efforts - current example

 

[Nick Dunhill]

This week I have been building the upperworks and finishing the chassis. Some 3D parts came in the post (thanks again Mick D) so I attached them to the chassis. They were springs and hangers, horn guide detail and a pair of sand boxes. They fitted with a minimum of manipulation and finish the chassis nicely. While I was at it I fitted the Loksound V5 decoder, Keep-Alive and speaker. All worked well on test.





You can see from the second photo that I added a lot of detail to the cab sides before building the structure. I did the cab opening surrounds and the cab doors. I also added the upstands for the coal rails. The back of the cab has a window with grills over it, so I sorted those out as well. All these things are much easier to solder onto the body parts before final assembly.



Then the basic structure was tacked to the footplate, checked several times for alignment, adjusted accordingly and soldered up. It went well, and I was able to add the sloping section of the cab rear and the bunker rear. Both were cut from 0.3 mm thickness NS to make the forming process easier.



The coal rails were made from......old coal rails from a Gladiator GCR tender that have been sitting in the bottom of my bits box for a couple of decades. The horizontal strips were exactly the right width and were cut from the old etch and soldered to the upstands using brass rods and drills as spacing jigs.



I added the cab floor and the cab side lockers/structures.



You can see that I had to cut the cab floor in half to get it in, but it will be covered by planking soon.

The last job of the week was making the cab roof. Of course the one in the kit didn't fit, and the ribs were too wobbly (at least sharpen your pencil if you're going to hand draw etches).

I cut the basic rectangle from 0.3 mm NS and had to hand cut all the ribs. This was done by soldering a wide strip of NS across the top of the cab front/rear and scribing the shape of the cab top. This was cut out and soldered to the roof. I then scribed the top of the rib with dividers (my vernier!) and cut that. It is a long tedious process but the finished cab looks good. The middle ribs are taller and slightly different from the end ribs. They had to be cut out very carefully before fitting. It's amazing how much work goes into a roof. It took a whole day, and I still have to fit a vent panel (the GA suggests some existed) and som ribs underneath to locate the roof on the cab.





So the above pic shows where I got to this week, and the count of kit parts used remains at 8. On Monday I'll finish the roof, do the cab door handrails and either make the boiler or backhead (that might take the whole week!). This weekend I will fix an(other) oil leak on my Rickman and go and tut at the SWFC chairman.

 

[paulc]

This week I have been building the upperworks and finishing the chassis. Some 3D parts came in the post (thanks again Mick D) so I attached them to the chassis. They were springs and hangers, horn guide detail and a pair of sand boxes. They fitted with a minimum of manipulation and finish the chassis nicely. While I was at it I fitted the Loksound V5 decoder, Keep-Alive and speaker. All worked well on test.

View attachment 248349

View attachment 248357

You can see from the second photo that I added a lot of detail to the cab sides before building the structure. I did the cab opening surrounds and the cab doors. I also added the upstands for the coal rails. The back of the cab has a window with grills over it, so I sorted those out as well. All these things are much easier to solder onto the body parts before final assembly.

View attachment 248351

Then the basic structure was tacked to the footplate, checked several times for alignment, adjusted accordingly and soldered up. It went well, and I was able to add the sloping section of the cab rear and the bunker rear. Both were cut from 0.3 mm thickness NS to make the forming process easier.

View attachment 248352

The coal rails were made from......old coal rails from a Gladiator GCR tender that have been sitting in the bottom of my bits box for a couple of decades. The horizontal strips were exactly the right width and were cut from the old etch and soldered to the upstands using brass rods and drills as spacing jigs.

View attachment 248353

I added the cab floor and the cab side lockers/structures.

View attachment 248354

You can see that I had to cut the cab floor in half to get it in, but it will be covered by planking soon.

The last job of the week was making the cab roof. Of course the one in the kit didn't fit, and the ribs were too wobbly (at least sharpen your pencil if you're going to hand draw etches).

I cut the basic rectangle from 0.3 mm NS and had to hand cut all the ribs. This was done by soldering a wide strip of NS across the top of the cab front/rear and scribing the shape of the cab top. This was cut out and soldered to the roof. I then scribed the top of the rib with dividers (my vernier!) and cut that. It is a long tedious process but the finished cab looks good. The middle ribs are taller and slightly different from the end ribs. They had to be cut out very carefully before fitting. It's amazing how much work goes into a roof. It took a whole day, and I still have to fit a vent panel (the GA suggests some existed) and som ribs underneath to locate the roof on the cab.

View attachment 248355

View attachment 248356

So the above pic shows where I got to this week, and the count of kit parts used remains at 8. On Monday I'll finish the roof, do the cab door handrails and either make the boiler or backhead (that might take the whole week!). This weekend I will fix an(other) oil leak on my Rickman and go and tut at the SWFC chairman.

Cab roofs have to be correct , a bit like chimneys and domes . They are the first thing you see when looking at a loco from above . Chimneys and domes also have to be upright from a side on and frontal view , if they aren't then that is the first thing i see and cannot stop looking at . I can't unsee .
I have to laugh at the number of parts used from the kit , you should calculate the number in percentage. That might be a bit scary though .
Nice work as always Nick .

 

[Rob R]

Or how much etch used by percentage of the area. That would be really scary.

 

[RichardG]

It's amazing how much work goes into a roof. It took a whole day, and I still have to fit a vent panel (the GA suggests some existed) and som ribs underneath to locate the roof on the cab.

Nick this sort of post is very encouraging. If it takes you a day, it will take me longer. I need to be more gentle on myself.

 

[Nick Dunhill]

I started this week finishing the cab roof and revising the lamp irons, then moved on to the steps.

I assumed (assumption is the mother of all ****-ups) that surely the etched steps in the kit would be ok? No. No, they weren't even close, but I did use the bottom treads, which, with the window beadings, takes the number of etched parts into double figures at 16. Sounds respectable.



Next I cut out all the formers and wrappers to make the boiler, smokebox and firebox. Again, the etched kit parts were no use.







The last job of the week was to cut out all the parts to finish the water tanks. When assembled the boiler will be captive in between the tanks, so I'm playing Tetris at the moment deciding which order to assemble it! I also used the step etches for the fronts of the water tank, and repurposed some other parts to make the inner walls of the tanks. If you count the latter, the etch count rises to 22.

 

[Nick Dunhill]

And at the end of this week the loco is nearly finished. I'm just waiting for the 3D printed chimney, smokebox door, dome and piano key cover for the front.

This week I attached the boiler assembly, glued in all the lead balast and closed the water tanks. I did use two more etchings from the kit, but they were only used to donate brass sheet to the project.



The kit parts for the front wheel splasher were no use, so I had to scratchbuild. They have backs too so you can't see the back of the wheels. The splashers marked the end of cutting panels for scratchbuilding....so I thought.

I looked at both etched (kit) and cast (LGM) backheads. The LGM backhead kit was really designed for a T9, so the fire hole door was completely different, the etched kit components, well......

I had to make a backhead and dig deep into my parts bin to find appropriate fittings for it.



I used strips of Plastikard roughed up with a suede brush for cab floor planks, and added the lever and control details to the cab lockers.



Next up was the Manson tablet catchers. I had LGM castings for them, but did detail them a lot. This also included the operating handles that pass through holes in the cab door.



Lo and Behold the brackets for the tablet catchers in the kit did fit, so were used. This took the final count of etchings used from the kit up to 28, although some were just used as sheet to cut out other parts. None of the large structural parts of the kit were used. Hope it didn't cost too much.

I added some finishing strips (copper foil) to the top of the tanks, as well as handrails and water filler lids.



Today was spent making handrails, fettling a LGM safety valve cover and whistle, making fire irons and doing other odds and sods.





I will finish it next week.

I think it is time to weigh in the Bins-O'Shame.

 

[45609]

Very nice Nick. What's is using as fuel? Chocolate covered peanuts and raisins?

 

[Nick Dunhill]

They're vegan 'Maltesers.' Very nice

 

[James]

I think it is time to weigh in the Bins-O'Shame.

View attachment 249253

I've worse sold on eBay.

 

[RichardG]

Nick thank you for all the photos but especially this one. Somehow it is very informative to me. I suspect this build is far more sophisticated than the designer of the kit ever envisaged

 

[Nick Dunhill]

The 3D has arrived and it is now all fitted up. The loco is all finished and will be with the painter tomorrow. Phew!

 

[Nick Dunhill]

Done. Paint by Warren Haywood.