Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Superb job JB,......is it gonna be mullered now 
or pristine finish ?
Col.
or pristine finish ?Col.
Scale7 JB Workbench.
- Thread starter Scale7JB
- Start date
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
I admire your ability to make such a good job of something so damn ugly
Not Ugly! Just different, with a certain charm all of its own.
Ian.
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
A light waft.Superb job JB,......is it gonna be mullered now
Col.
JB.
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Ah, not 10,000 hours to build this one, but I’d like to think I have close to 10,000 hours building engines over the years.If it rolled into Abergele, I'd be glad to travel behind it. 10,000 hours though.....What stamina!
JB.
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
They weren't ugly when they left Manchester - that was something that happened downunder!
Charles Beyer could never design an ugly engine.
Crimson Rambler
Charles Beyer could never design an ugly engine.
Crimson Rambler
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Yes, that one!
At least they put all the ugliness in that one class and left the rest looking good
It's a Marmite thing, I like Marmite but that engine does not appeal to me at all, sorry
, likewise Dragon Rapides or GWR Railcars 
Last edited:
Oz7mm
Western Thunderer
Mick
I agree on GWR Railcars (add Warships there), but Dragon Rapides are lovely little machines. In summer there's one that comes over regularly on sightseeing trips from Duxford.
With the Z12. the right hand side benefits from not having all that gubbins on it, and the Thow porthole cab is quirky (that's one word for it). Still, it would be boring if we all liked the same thing.
I agree on GWR Railcars (add Warships there), but Dragon Rapides are lovely little machines. In summer there's one that comes over regularly on sightseeing trips from Duxford.
With the Z12. the right hand side benefits from not having all that gubbins on it, and the Thow porthole cab is quirky (that's one word for it). Still, it would be boring if we all liked the same thing.
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Always had a soft spot for the two-car flying banana railcars..
mikemorant.smugmug.com
JB.
GWR railcars & railmotors - MikeMorant
Former GWR single-ended railcars W38 and W33 in BR corporate green livery at Leamington Spa station on 23/12/61. W38 had entered service in February 1942 paired with W37 but the latter was scrapped following fire damage in 1947 and W33, one of the double-ended units, was rebuilt in 1954 as a...
mikemorant.smugmug.com
JB.
Scale7JB
Western Thunderer
Onwards.
Let’s get this one finished shall we..
We ummm’d and ahhhh’d about the cab interior colour, and as smart as it looks it needs to go from the dirty cream/yellow colour back to black.
Then maybe we can get back to the D16!! The thought of writing the instructions still fills me with dread!
JB.
Let’s get this one finished shall we..
We ummm’d and ahhhh’d about the cab interior colour, and as smart as it looks it needs to go from the dirty cream/yellow colour back to black.
Then maybe we can get back to the D16!! The thought of writing the instructions still fills me with dread!
JB.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
..stick part one to part two...
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
Most of us don't follow instructions!
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
This example of tender cab fitted to an E4 certainly looks black, cut from scrapped F3 cabs.
Col.
Podartist79
Western Thunderer
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
I do find it rather strange - or perhaps I should not - that modern, "accepted wisdom" seems to dictate that steam locomotive cab interiors should (always) be painted "cream".
The so called "Heritage railway" movement is I fear, partly to blame for the misconception?
It doesn't take much of a look at the subject to realise that it was in fact a fairly rare occurrence throughout railway history. Apart from a handful of exceptions, including some companies in the early days that insisted cabs were to be ornately "scumbled" with a mock teak or oak effect, the most common would seem to have been to finish them in the external colour scheme. Some manufacturers photographs reveal that the interiors were occasionally fully lined out too!!
On the specific subject of the J15, while I cannot immediately put my hand to the book in question for an accurate quote, I do recall the gist of what Mr. Richard Hardy (Ipswich shedmaster at the time) wrote on the matter:
The Ipswich men wanted to do a special "bulling-up" job on the engine allocated to the last day of "Middy" services. When someone suggested painting the cab interior cream (or perhaps pale yellow in original, unique, GER style) they were told in no uncertain terms that permission could only be granted by the head office at Liverpool Street! That authorisation took a while, and in the end came through just in time! Dick published a photograph of two Ipswich painters actually doing the job on the morning of the day itself - with the loco standing in steam at the branch bay platform at Haughley Junction!!!
I think the message is quite clear about attitudes and adherence to the rulebook on the old LNER and therefore in continuum, BR Eastern Region at least? It is perhaps worthy of note that while Nationalisation brought a complete change of management at the very top - and with it some rather doubtful decision making and reorganisations - as well as some nice new stuff, on the whole, it must be recognised that the "old guard" - the same old boys just carrying on in the same old way was ultimately the reality! Traditions die hard?!
The protagonists are pretty much all gone now though, so the way is clear to make it up as we go along, into the realm where myths and legends proliferate!
Everyone else might think you've got it wrong - and I suppose it is impossible to stop the tide coming in? - but hey ho, for what it's worth, we will both know?!!
Go on then JB; just paint it all black!!
Pete.
The so called "Heritage railway" movement is I fear, partly to blame for the misconception?
It doesn't take much of a look at the subject to realise that it was in fact a fairly rare occurrence throughout railway history. Apart from a handful of exceptions, including some companies in the early days that insisted cabs were to be ornately "scumbled" with a mock teak or oak effect, the most common would seem to have been to finish them in the external colour scheme. Some manufacturers photographs reveal that the interiors were occasionally fully lined out too!!
On the specific subject of the J15, while I cannot immediately put my hand to the book in question for an accurate quote, I do recall the gist of what Mr. Richard Hardy (Ipswich shedmaster at the time) wrote on the matter:
The Ipswich men wanted to do a special "bulling-up" job on the engine allocated to the last day of "Middy" services. When someone suggested painting the cab interior cream (or perhaps pale yellow in original, unique, GER style) they were told in no uncertain terms that permission could only be granted by the head office at Liverpool Street! That authorisation took a while, and in the end came through just in time! Dick published a photograph of two Ipswich painters actually doing the job on the morning of the day itself - with the loco standing in steam at the branch bay platform at Haughley Junction!!!
I think the message is quite clear about attitudes and adherence to the rulebook on the old LNER and therefore in continuum, BR Eastern Region at least? It is perhaps worthy of note that while Nationalisation brought a complete change of management at the very top - and with it some rather doubtful decision making and reorganisations - as well as some nice new stuff, on the whole, it must be recognised that the "old guard" - the same old boys just carrying on in the same old way was ultimately the reality! Traditions die hard?!
The protagonists are pretty much all gone now though, so the way is clear to make it up as we go along, into the realm where myths and legends proliferate!
Everyone else might think you've got it wrong - and I suppose it is impossible to stop the tide coming in? - but hey ho, for what it's worth, we will both know?!!
Go on then JB; just paint it all black!!
Pete.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
BR paint specifications; Interiors :-
Standard Green.
Cab;
Black, cab interior below windows.
Red oxide, cab sides and front plate above lower window line.
Black, boiler back head, roof extension/overhang.
White cab roof ahead of rear extension/overhang.
Lined black.
Cab;
Black, cab interior, all except roof ahead of rear extension/overhang
White, cab roof ahead of rear extension/overhang.
Red oxide, some evidence exists of BR black engines with red oxide window frames internally.
The white cab roof rapidly turned to cream and then brown over time.
Standard Green.
Cab;
Black, cab interior below windows.
Red oxide, cab sides and front plate above lower window line.
Black, boiler back head, roof extension/overhang.
White cab roof ahead of rear extension/overhang.
Lined black.
Cab;
Black, cab interior, all except roof ahead of rear extension/overhang
White, cab roof ahead of rear extension/overhang.
Red oxide, some evidence exists of BR black engines with red oxide window frames internally.
The white cab roof rapidly turned to cream and then brown over time.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
I see the LMS crimson lake livery had lake below the lower window line and grained oak scumble above. The rest was as per the BR spec stated by Mickoo. So perhaps white cab roofs were not so uncommon but would quickly discolour and even become soot engrained before long in service.
May be the idea was to reflect some light onto the back-head controls as a totally black cab would be quite gloomy, especially with a tender cab?
Dave.
May be the idea was to reflect some light onto the back-head controls as a totally black cab would be quite gloomy, especially with a tender cab?
Dave.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Thank you Mick for clarification of the BR Standard scheme, and I think that may to some extent have been a reflection of later LMS practice at Derby and Crewe, - but it is not necessarily what the various regions actually applied - neither does it suggest commonality!
Many people seem to consider the BR(W) was the only, gloriously awkward squad that went merrily on their own way of doing things - I do not recall the use of any white, off or otherwise being specified, let alone applied to cabs, (although I am more than happy to be corrected) but lets not forget the Southern Region as well, with a red oxide - or medium brown (?) shade only?
In any case, the official specifications do confirm what I was saying, and show only the roofs "forward of overhangs" to be painted white, and Dave, you are quite correct that the delicate shade would quickly go black anyway?!
In the face of any further protest, I will otherwise firmly stand by my points raised; in that; "accepted wisdom" can, and frequently does merge imperceptibly with myth - and that is something of a personal bugbear! Cows lying down, a chopped worm becoming two and Lemmings jumping over cliffs are obviously silly examples, yet our own railway enthusiast community seems at times to be no less vulnerable and easily mislead?
I therefore prefer to question everything, including my own preciously held opinions, and always seek hard evidence rather than simply relying on "convention".
Arguments about liveries are frequently the source of much despair - and lets face it; there are some decidedly strange (and even idiotic?) theories espoused out there, many of which have been around and oft published for years, yet even now continue to bamboozle innocent souls?!
Living life; "swimming against flow" can be a bit tough going most of the time - but there's rarely a dull moment!!
Pete.
Many people seem to consider the BR(W) was the only, gloriously awkward squad that went merrily on their own way of doing things - I do not recall the use of any white, off or otherwise being specified, let alone applied to cabs, (although I am more than happy to be corrected) but lets not forget the Southern Region as well, with a red oxide - or medium brown (?) shade only?
In any case, the official specifications do confirm what I was saying, and show only the roofs "forward of overhangs" to be painted white, and Dave, you are quite correct that the delicate shade would quickly go black anyway?!
In the face of any further protest, I will otherwise firmly stand by my points raised; in that; "accepted wisdom" can, and frequently does merge imperceptibly with myth - and that is something of a personal bugbear! Cows lying down, a chopped worm becoming two and Lemmings jumping over cliffs are obviously silly examples, yet our own railway enthusiast community seems at times to be no less vulnerable and easily mislead?
I therefore prefer to question everything, including my own preciously held opinions, and always seek hard evidence rather than simply relying on "convention".
Arguments about liveries are frequently the source of much despair - and lets face it; there are some decidedly strange (and even idiotic?) theories espoused out there, many of which have been around and oft published for years, yet even now continue to bamboozle innocent souls?!
Living life; "swimming against flow" can be a bit tough going most of the time - but there's rarely a dull moment!!
Pete.