7mm Shelf Queen Rescue - LSWR M7

[Railwaymaniac]

Steph -

Right now the springs on either side of the rear bogie are sitting on the sideframes, and there's an air-gap between the top of the bogie stretcher and the underside of the chassis member where the bogie fixing bolt comes through.

I need to put some washers on that bolt in there to give the springs an air-gap to the chassis sides, and then check the rest of the clearances around the bogie. (this will also turn the loco into a genuine three-point suspension set-up)

Very specifically, I'm certain that the front of the bogie will not clear the rear brake fulcrum cross shaft member thingy, but I need to go check and photograph it. . .

Ian

 

[Steph Dale]

Ian,

If it's any help here's a photo of the equivalent areas of my P4 version built around 15 (ahem!) years ago. It shows the state of play for me at the time; compensated, split axle bogie (hence the 'fat' axle) and with wiper pick-up on the loco driving wheels. It has detachable brake gear as I described earlier. Wheels are Gibson and there's a High-Level 60:1 and Mashima 1620 hiding in there, it runs great and pulls the side off a house (unusual for an 0-4-4t!). It also has a slightly misguided over-application of inner-frame red; I now know the areas in front of the cylinder and behind the firebox would have been black, especially the bogie! I did get the hand lining right though and for a first attempt I remain very pleased with the results. So too the knitting involved in fitting the pull-push gear and its associated plumbing.

In this version, there is just enough clearance around the brake fulcrum, but even then I cut the brake cylinder lever off short as it just got in the way; I'll work a way to get this sorted with my 7mm versions. You can see that the bogie frames just run inside the loco frames at the front of the bogie; the forward-most bogie pivot pin was used, just over the top of the front bogie wheels (still put the washers on the screw though!).



Of course, I had few compromises with the model, it's designed to take 6' radius curves, but can manage much tighter. All thanks to that clever transposed centre of rotation to the bogie.

Cheers,

Steph

 

[Railwaymaniac]

OK, so here are a couple of shots of the underneath of my loco, similar views to Steph's offering, just to show you folks what's going on under there.


As you can see in this first shot, the front frames of the bogie protrude well forward of the brake fulcrum cross shaft, and what is worse is that the bogie frames are touching the cross shaft even before I think about mounting the bogie up from it's present position. The bogie is not currently sitting flat, so some surgery is required here . . .


In the centre of this (rather better illuminated) shot you can see the front bogie pivot and the post that it rotates on.

Even after I cut down the fronts of the bogie frames I still retain the option of removing this pivot shaft entirely. This would allow the bogie to pivot on the suspension bolt rather than being constrained here as well, the probably ridiculously over-strong restraint springing that I've got in there will ensure that there's not too much sideways drift on the whole bogie assembly during use. Heck, I could even solder the springing wires up solid and guarantee that the bogie wouldn't ever drift from side to side.

More thoughts, and maybe even some action Real Soon

Ian

 

[Steph Dale]

Ian,
The bogie is on the wrong way round. DON'T CUT ANYTHING!
Oh, and fit the guard irons which will aid clarity.
Oh, and use the supplied music wire for the side control; form it and clip it in, don't solder.
Message ends.
Steph

 

[Railwaymaniac]

Hi Steph;

It's OK - my Dremmel is in a box, somewhere - I'm still giving this a good thick layer of thinking about . .. ... ....

Challenging thought, that. That the bogie might be on the wrong way round.

I don't see how, though. I've just spent the last 10 mins staring at the bogie, and I just don't see it - the guard irons on the 7mm model are part of the bogie side-frame etch and not a separate part. (Is that not the case in the 4mm model???)
And the 'u'-shaped tray that forms the well in the bogie (which is also symmetrical) sits in an etched slot, so it must also be in the 'right' place.

I think I'm going to have to get you, me and the loco all together in the same place (again) . .

Ian

 

[Steph Dale]

Interesting.
I'll have a look through the drawings this evening and get back to you.
Otherwise, I'll be at Kettering or Reading!
Steph

 

[Railwaymaniac]

Thanks Steph;

Reading is sounding better than Kettering, as March 1 is my wedding anniversary. SWMBO would not be amiable if I was to be out that day . . .

Ian

 

[Steph Dale]

Hehe, understood. I don't like wearing my gonads as earrings either...

So back to where we were. I'm going to type this very slowly and carefully. I'd forgotten, but it's an error in the kit. You'll probably be able to hear the rustling of a particularly well-worn anorak as I'm typing this. Shh...

Unfortunately Martin seems to have used a common bogie for the T9, L11 and M7, and as a result it's not quite right for any of them. For a T9 or L11 there should be a joggle in the frames and narrowed spring beams to clear the motion (so only an issue if you're building one of 'em with full inside motion - I hope NickD's reading this...). For the M7 the frame profile isn't right - it's a slightly different outline shared with the D15s and 4-6-0s. Some of which also have joggles etc, etc...

Some while ago I started building a D15 from a Shedmaster kit. Eventually I realised that I would only really be using a selection of the castings and about half the etches, but before it came to that I had built the front bogie. Unfortunately at that time I hadn't found any D15 drawings at the NRM and so it has an error - it's an M7 bogie (no joggles). So here's a suggestion of how one should look - you'll have to trim the frame outline behind the axlebox on your model so it matches this one and clears the brake beam. If you look at the equivalent shots for your and my locos you can see I did this modification (and over the intervening years forgot about it). Inner end of bogie, from above:


Here's a view of the side-control spring formed and sprung in to place - yes it's the same idea as Mr Finney. The bogie is split-axle, if you compare with the above you can see how the insulation gaps are different above/below the paxolin spacer. Outer end of bogie, with guard irons, from below:


Drawing to confirm (don't scale - it's a photograph not a scan!):


And a pic of 30053's bogie while under restoration at Swanage:

That pic, and a few more are on this page: http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/news409.htm

At this point it would appear I need to get out more. And soon.

Steph

 

[Railwaymaniac]

ARGHHhhhhhhhh . . . . . . . . . . {despairing cry, fading into the distance . . . .}

Thanks, Steph - If had even noticed a word breathed about this anywhere in the reports that I'd read, I might have seen it. hi, ho. . .

Piercing saws at dawn at 15 paces, and suddenly the world is looking a lot brighter . . .



Ian

 

[Railwaymaniac]

Interlude, with sunflowers. And electronics.

I visited a small railway exhibition over the weekend, and found I needed a LARGE chequebook.
I bought this :-


And once I'd opened the boxes I found I had bought :-


So here's what it's going to control, the usual ESCAP motor + Brian's best gearbox along with a Loksound 3.5 and the supplied speaker in a box :-


Put it all together, stir a little with a Loksound manual and a soldering iron and you get :-


Quelle lash-up!

I have actually used a DCC system before, but not my own one, so none of this was a total surprise
And (stunningly) when I turned the throttle up the motor actually ran. And ran very well.
So I turned it off again and had a coffee . . .

Sound. Yes. That was the other thing. I eventually found the little piece of paper that came with the decoder that told me which function key was 'sound on/off'. And then I spent 20 minutes playing with the squeals, clanks and chuffs. . . .


Back to the actual loco build Real Soon Now

Ian

 

[oldravendale]

Interlude, with sunflowers. And electronics.

And then I spent 20 minutes playing with the squeals, clanks and chuffs. . . .


Ian

Hi Ian.

Who's chips (whoops) sound decoder are you using? Recently I've almost standardised on Howes but I'll have two A3s before long (if before long means about 18 months, but you get my drift) and I don't want identical sound for each. My thoughts at the moment are possibly one from Howes and the other from Olivia's Trains.

Incidentally I put a Howes M7 chip in my Adams Radial (twice, but we won't go in to that). It's pretty good and they have been most helpful if I've had any problems.

Brian

 

[7mmMick]

Great Stuff Ian

Any chance of a little video show casing the sounds you describe. I'm always on the look out for a decent DCC set up and how Steam sound chips are evolving,

Cheers Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

Who's chips (whoops) sound decoder are you using?

Aw c'mon Dad; I'd think that Ian saying it was a LokSound 3.5 might give a bit of a clue that it's, erm, a LokSound 3.5...

Steph

 

[oldravendale]

Aw c'mon Dad; I'd think that Ian saying it was a LokSound 3.5 might give a bit of a clue that it's, erm, a LokSound 3.5...

Steph

Sorry - I didn't ask the question to which I want the answer. Whose sound profile is on the decoder? I don't think that's in Ian's post, or have I missed that?

 

[Railwaymaniac]

Any chance of a little video show casing the sounds you describe. I'm always on the look out for a decent DCC set up and how Steam sound chips are evolving,

Video. Hmmmm, now there's an interesting set of challenges, I'll go have a look for a thread on here about adding videos.
I'll not do the video tonight, for sure. Maybe not in the next couple of nights, but I'll do it no later than the end of the weekend. How's that? Oh, and it'll be loose rather than installed in the loco, too.
One thought that did occur to me was that the assembly came with a load of black sticky gunk to hold the speaker into the loco - I wonder if I can simulate this by sticking the speaker down to the work bench with blue-tack. Hmmmm, again.

Brian -
I got the Loksound about 2.5yrs ago eek from Olivia's Trains, with the M7 sounds already in there, I'm sorry but I don't know anything else about the profile, maybe their website would give some detail? I think that at the time they were the only folk selling sound decoders with M7 sounds, which was why I went there. . .

Ian

 

[oldravendale]

One thought that did occur to me was that the assembly came with a load of black sticky gunk to hold the speaker into the loco - I wonder if I can simulate this by sticking the speaker down to the work bench with blue-tack. Hmmmm, again.

Brian -
I got the Loksound about 2.5yrs ago eek from Olivia's Trains, with the M7 sounds already in there, I'm sorry but I don't know anything else about the profile, maybe their website would give some detail? I think that at the time they were the only folk selling sound decoders with M7 sounds, which was why I went there. . .

Ian

Thanks for your comment, Ian. You've understood and answered my question perfectly. Your comments suggest that the sound satisfies you and that is a good indication for me to try Olivia's Trains for one of my A3s.

As far as fitting the speaker is concerned I can do no better than suggest you discuss with Steph. The sound of my locos has improved significantly with the installation of them in sound chambers.

Brian

 

[7mmMick]

Video. Hmmmm, now there's an interesting set of challenges, I'll go have a look for a thread on here about adding videos.
I'll not do the video tonight, for sure. Maybe not in the next couple of nights, but I'll do it no later than the end of the weekend. How's that? Oh, and it'll be loose rather than installed in the loco, too.
One thought that did occur to me was that the assembly came with a load of black sticky gunk to hold the speaker into the loco - I wonder if I can simulate this by sticking the speaker down to the work bench with blue-tack. Hmmmm, again.

Brian -
I got the Loksound about 2.5yrs ago eek from Olivia's Trains, with the M7 sounds already in there, I'm sorry but I don't know anything else about the profile, maybe their website would give some detail? I think that at the time they were the only folk selling sound decoders with M7 sounds, which was why I went there. . .

Ian

Great stuff, look forward to it

As far as fitting the speaker is concerned I can do no better than suggest you discuss with Steph. The sound of my locos has improved significantly with the installation of them in sound chambers.

Brian

Sound Chambers, I like the sounds of that, please tell us more. Will use a sound chamber Ian? If so I will keep an eye out as many of my projects at the minute are similar dimensions to your M7,

ATB Mick

 

[oldravendale]

Sound Chambers, I like the sounds of that, please tell us more. Will use a sound chamber Ian? If so I will keep an eye out as many of my projects at the minute are similar dimensions to your M7,

ATB Mick

Basically it's the construction of a sealed box in to which the speaker is mounted. Or use the loco boiler. The important thing is that it's sealed.

However, I'm stealing Steph's (western) thunder so suggest that you wait until Steph follows this up and tells everyone I'm wrong.

Brian

 

[7mmMick]

Basically it's the construction of a sealed box in to which the speaker is mounted. Or use the loco boiler. The important thing is that it's sealed.

However, I'm stealing Steph's (western) thunder so suggest that you wait until Steph follows this up and tells everyone I'm wrong.

Brian

Thanks Brian,

If it's any consolation I often tell my Dad he's wrong as well

 

[Railwaymaniac]

In the gloaming, as the sun set fiery behind the Western hills today, I managed to catch sight of the rare flying M7 beast, paddling it's legs as hard as it could and screaming it's anguish to an uncaring world . . . .

Frankly, it is all a bit gloomy and slightly out of focus, but I'm sure you'll get the idea.
If anyone wants me to re-shoot this as a better video, then it'll have to be over the weekend when I can film it in daylight.
Oh, and the high-pitched 'ticking' noises are coming from the hand-held DCC controller that I'm using here - it seems to pick these noises up better than anything else.

Ian