Hi Julia, yes I'm impressed with this too, I've been following the formlabs videos. We have a lot of 3D printers at work so I am interested in trying it for forming.Absolutely fascinating! The results from it are amazing.
I am aware that people have tried using 3D printed form tools for low quantity runs too. It certainly brings the technology to the home user when you haven't got access to expensive machines.
Julia
The Mad Squasher Strikes Again.......
- Thread starter Fitzroy
- Start date
Hi Pieter
I wonder if there is still a market for tinplate rolling stock, and the short answer is I don’t know. Neither Ace nor Darstaed appear to making tinplate coaches currently, indeed Darstaed seems to have gone over entirely to fine-scale, or at least ‘scale’ rather than ‘tinplate’.
My problem with most of the modern ‘tinplate style’ coaches that Ace and Darstaed did produce was simply that they were nowhere near as well made as Bassett-Lowke’s. Rather crude cast bogie sides, no embossing to represent the window frames etc. (and strengthen the sides). Incorrect fonts for lettering. No hand finishing to cover the exposed steel at the edges of the tinplate sheets at the corners of the coach But silly gimmicks like massively over-scale tail lights. So the modern coaches just looked completely wrong next to genuine vintage vehicles. Both manufacturers seemed very anxious to advertise how keenly priced their coaches were. Personally, I might have bought some if they had been more expensive but better made.
So I do wonder if there would still be demand for really nice vintage style tinplate coaches, following the approach you took to your A1/A3 locos …
Goods vehicles too. The use of diecast underframes meant the modern vehicles looked quite different to real 1930s and earlier models. Alternatively, some really very nice wagon bodies were put on modern Continental European underframes. A rectangular tank tar wagon comes to mind.
I wonder if, properly done, vintage style goods wagons would still sell. It was noticeable, for instance, that the modern manufacturers did not produce LMS, SR or GW goods brakes to go with their wagons, let alone any pre-grouping types.
Martin
Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
For anyone not aware, have a look at Pieter's fabulous work as 'Fitzroy Loco Works'
The pressed components are so impressive
.
Any update on that 'dashing blue' S class, Pieter ?
Brian McK.
The pressed components are so impressive
.Any update on that 'dashing blue' S class, Pieter ?
Brian McK.
Hi Brian, I really need to update the website....For anyone not aware, have a look at Pieter's fabulous work as 'Fitzroy Loco Works'
The pressed components are so impressive
Any update on that 'dashing blue' S class, Pieter ?
Brian McK.
I finished the locos and they all went off in early 2025. In the end I made 22 in total- one prototype, one production prototype, and 20 production engines. I will end up making more but not in batches of 20! I think 5 a time would be my limit next time. It became a bit of a rod for my own back. I will also do some with finescale wheels, but that might entail suspension.
Cheers
Pieter
More progress in the last couple of days. I formed up the sides and roof by hand to see how it all looks with the rivet detail, and reassembled the prototype coach with the new piece. Since then, I have been scratching my head about tools to do the job a little quicker. It turns out my friend Ed, who would be known to some in the Bassett-Lowke Society, still had his tools he had made for forming replica Exley coaches out of aluminium sheet and he very kindly offered them to me.
Since this was made I have been working on the Exley tools (the roof profile is effectively identical, which is a funny coincidence because my profile is an exact scale replica of the Spirit of Progress stock, but not quite the notional scale of the Exley K6 LMS coach profile).
The main work has been cleaning and derusting with a rotary brush, and easing some mating parts with careful grinding to make sure they don't lock together or shear off the sides if over-pressed. They were never intended for doing any large quantity of parts, so there were shortcuts involved in their welding and fabrication. However, considering how they were made they are exceptionally good and pretty accurate. I will be adding some stops and alignment features too, but I was able to finally do an end to end tryout today and it all worked.
The coach ends behind the cast floating vestibule/streamline corridor connectors are also pressed out of tools I had lasercut in slices and then pinned together. I'll post something on those in the next few days. The doors are actually folded over flaps of the ends, and the handrail knobs hold the ends on. I need to make embossing dies for the door window frames, and master models for battery boxes and air conditioner units and air cylinders, but its coming together. Oh, and I need to make dies to press seats for the compartments. I want to at least make some rough dummies of the underfloor parts to get a feel for how it all presents itself. Anyway, more anon.
Pieter
Since this was made I have been working on the Exley tools (the roof profile is effectively identical, which is a funny coincidence because my profile is an exact scale replica of the Spirit of Progress stock, but not quite the notional scale of the Exley K6 LMS coach profile).
The main work has been cleaning and derusting with a rotary brush, and easing some mating parts with careful grinding to make sure they don't lock together or shear off the sides if over-pressed. They were never intended for doing any large quantity of parts, so there were shortcuts involved in their welding and fabrication. However, considering how they were made they are exceptionally good and pretty accurate. I will be adding some stops and alignment features too, but I was able to finally do an end to end tryout today and it all worked.
The coach ends behind the cast floating vestibule/streamline corridor connectors are also pressed out of tools I had lasercut in slices and then pinned together. I'll post something on those in the next few days. The doors are actually folded over flaps of the ends, and the handrail knobs hold the ends on. I need to make embossing dies for the door window frames, and master models for battery boxes and air conditioner units and air cylinders, but its coming together. Oh, and I need to make dies to press seats for the compartments. I want to at least make some rough dummies of the underfloor parts to get a feel for how it all presents itself. Anyway, more anon.
Pieter
Here's something on the coach ends. The coach ends on Spirit Of Progress stock were, at least initially, pretty well hidden by the vestibule frames. The vestibule frames were an overall corridor connector that filled in the gap between coaches, to reduce drag, or at least look cool and tres moderne as they say in Paris, France. Some American streamline trains had them in the mid-thirties and you can find American carriages from the likes of Lionel with (non-working) representations on their ends. The four S class locos had these on their tenders, and the coaches used the same part. Sometime in the mid to late 50's VR took a gas axe to the vestibules, turning them into fairly normal corridor connectors, and a can opener to the last six inches or so of the coach roof and sides at each end. Initially I could get away with a flat piece of tin on the prototype and that was fine, but I had two problems. One, I did want at some point to make a representation of later stock where you could see the end, and secondly I was keen on the idea of making the vestibule frames sprung so that, at least on very large radius track, you could close couple the coaches so the vestibules touched.
Both of these things meant that the coach end had to be fairly representative in shape, but I thought it was worth a crack. But by this point I could not afford to pay someone else to make tooling, even at mate's rates.
This shows at the top right, a newly pressed coach end. To the lower left, the blank lasercut from tinplate. This is the fifth iteration of the design. Underneath are some of the raw tool blanks cut from thin plate.
This is the female die, assembled from the plates with a little light dressing off and careful reaming of the holes for dowel pins. It looks messy because it has a coating of axle grease from pressing and also stray grinding and filing detritus from me working next to it.
This is the male die. I have dressed off bevels on it with an angle grinder, just winging it, to give a representation of the shape of the sides and also at the bottom to provide clearance to the vestibule frame as well as reduce the amount of stretch in the tin in those corners- I'll get to that in a minute. You can see also I have chopped out the sides of the baseplate. This is to allow the sides of the part which represent the doors to fold over. Initially I had these sides, then when I decided to make the end representative, I gave up on that idea. When it started all coming together I decided to bring them back, hence the chopping.
The side bevels were an afterthought too, as I initially thought they would be too difficult. With everything else, I thought I would give it a try. I had put the dowels holding everything together in the worst possible place, but it works ok for tinplate. I might end up redoing everything properly with the benefit of hindsight once I've worn out this tool set.
And this is the very first tryout, using a roughly cut scrap piece of painted tinplate. Good enough to decide me to keep going by adjusting, filing, grinding etc. You can see at the bottom right corner where the tin has torn through, and I subsequently cut the male die back to let the tin move and stretch in that area.
So that is "the process". There's more to do. I am going to make a similar dieset to push in the centre 3 or 4 mm to represent the recessed end door, and eventually for the later coaches I will do a die for all the rivet lines. Ideally, that will be flat, to be used on the blank before going through this die set.
Both of these things meant that the coach end had to be fairly representative in shape, but I thought it was worth a crack. But by this point I could not afford to pay someone else to make tooling, even at mate's rates.
This shows at the top right, a newly pressed coach end. To the lower left, the blank lasercut from tinplate. This is the fifth iteration of the design. Underneath are some of the raw tool blanks cut from thin plate.
This is the female die, assembled from the plates with a little light dressing off and careful reaming of the holes for dowel pins. It looks messy because it has a coating of axle grease from pressing and also stray grinding and filing detritus from me working next to it.
This is the male die. I have dressed off bevels on it with an angle grinder, just winging it, to give a representation of the shape of the sides and also at the bottom to provide clearance to the vestibule frame as well as reduce the amount of stretch in the tin in those corners- I'll get to that in a minute. You can see also I have chopped out the sides of the baseplate. This is to allow the sides of the part which represent the doors to fold over. Initially I had these sides, then when I decided to make the end representative, I gave up on that idea. When it started all coming together I decided to bring them back, hence the chopping.
The side bevels were an afterthought too, as I initially thought they would be too difficult. With everything else, I thought I would give it a try. I had put the dowels holding everything together in the worst possible place, but it works ok for tinplate. I might end up redoing everything properly with the benefit of hindsight once I've worn out this tool set.
And this is the very first tryout, using a roughly cut scrap piece of painted tinplate. Good enough to decide me to keep going by adjusting, filing, grinding etc. You can see at the bottom right corner where the tin has torn through, and I subsequently cut the male die back to let the tin move and stretch in that area.
So that is "the process". There's more to do. I am going to make a similar dieset to push in the centre 3 or 4 mm to represent the recessed end door, and eventually for the later coaches I will do a die for all the rivet lines. Ideally, that will be flat, to be used on the blank before going through this die set.
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