Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Martin Shaw]

Dave
Thank you for your further thoughts, certainly your quoted dimensions are sufficiently small to be accounted for in flexing and if the difference between a WC and a MN is 0.001" then it's practicably ignorable.

Hopefully, that exhausts the subject.
Now back to Brian's photos posts.

I don't think it does however your right this isn't the location to take it further.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all for the considerable treatise concerning the loco I guessed, clearly incorrectly, to be a Merchant Navy. Now updated by way of an edit. In my normal fashion I'm very happy for any further discussion to continue on this thread but just be aware that all this detailed info may be lost in here...

Dave @Yorkshire Dave - Thanks for the continuing comments stimulated by spin off about the earlier discussion concerning the GC/GW line. I was certain that Winston Churchill (and probably William Shakespeare) would get a look in on this thread sooner or later.

Two pannier tanks at Paddington, 15XX 1500 and 94XX 9418 both carrying 81A Old Oak Common shed plates around 1962. The 15XX was last seen in posts #1245, #2359 and #2360. It went new to Old Oak in 1949 and stuck there. Withdrawal came in November 1963 (SLS) and it went to TW Ward, Briton Ferry where it was scrapped by the end of May 1964. (Rail UK). 9418 was in post #1530. It was an Old Oak engine from new in May 1950 and moved to Southall in April 1965 going in to store in May and being withdrawn in June. (SLS) It was scrapped at T W Ward, Briton Ferry, by the end of October 1965. (Rail UK). The cars on the right hand side of the frame and the fashions in the second of these two are truly indicative of the era,





Two trains entering Paddington at some time around 1962. 15XX pannier tank 1506 appears to be bringing empty stock in to the station. It was allocated to Ebbw Junction, Newport in October 1959 and moved to Old Oak Common in May 1962 where it was withdrawn in November 1963. (SLS). It was sold to Wards, Sheffield but cut up at Briton Ferry according to WHTS. BR Database report a scrapping month of May 1964. The other train is hauled by Castle 7002 Devizes Castle previously in posts #1156 and #2541. 7002 was at Worcester at the end of November 1959 and stayed there until withdrawal in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in June. (BR Database).



Previously in post #4992 is Castle Class 7001 Sir James Milne here at Paddington during 1962. This had been an Old Oak engine from May 1948 until September 1961 when it transferred to Stafford Road and it’s wearing the Stafford Road 84A shed plate here. In September 1963 it moved again to St Blazey where it was withdrawn within the same month. (SLS). Disposal followed in April 1964 at Cohen’s, Morriston. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[David B]

9418 appears to have brought in Pullman stock - I assume this would be the ‘Wells Fargo’ spare set which covered for low availability of the new Blue Pullman sets on the Bristol and Birmingham routes. Would the use of platform 6 imply that this would be the Birmingham service? Interesting too to see so clearly the many detail differences between the two types of Hawksworth tank.

 

[oldravendale]

I'd not noticed the Pullman stock previously, David @David B but I see it now. I remember the blue Pullmans well, but even more the relief train in the shed at Old Oak. Such an elegant train. I remember it was used quite frequently at the time. The differences between the two tank locos are, indeed, very obvious.

Modified Hall 7919, Runter Hall previously in post #1978 and here at Old Oak Common in around 1962. It was new at Reading at the end of May 1950 and waited until January 1965 before moving to Worcester, ending up at Oxford in July before withdrawal at some time in the seven weeks ending 16th January 1966. (SLS). It ended up at Cashmore's, Newport where it was scrapped in May 1966. (BR Database)



9F 92209 in Old Oak Shed at some time around 1962. The loco was allocated to Ebbw Junction, Newport from May 1961 moving to Cardiff East Dock in September 1963, then Southall in June, back to Cardiff in July, Severn Tunnel Junction in August, Bristol Barrow Road in October/November and Bath Green Park in November – all in 1965 – where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in the following March. (BR Database).



Modified Hall 6960 Raveningham Hall was in post #4476 and here is at Paddington on 9th February 1963. It was allocated to Reading from October 1953 moving to Oxford in August 1963 before withdrawal in June 1964. (SLS). The loco was sent to Woodham's, saved for preservation and left the yard in October 1972.- see 6960 Raveningham Hall for more details.

In the second shot there's a 94XX pannier tank on the left hand side of the frame.







Brian

 

[Osgood]

The pair of Panniers and the 9F - what lovely images!!

 

[oldravendale]

... well, the 9F anyway...

Manor Class 7816 Frilsham Manor was seen previously in post #4677 and here it’s hauling failed Hymek D7037 on a Cardiff arrival at Paddington on 9th February 1963. The Manor was a St Blazey engine from November 1952, went to Tyseley in October 1960, Stourbridge Junction in October 1961, Reading October 1962, Swindon August and Didcot November 1964 and finally Gloucester Horton Road in July 1965 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in February 1966. (BR Database). I’ve made a blow up of the tender to display the “GWR” it still carries.

D7037 was introduced when new to Cardiff Canton in June 1962, then Newton Abbot in June, Laira in July and Bristol Bath Road in September 1965. Finally, in November 1970 it went to Old Oak Common where it was withdrawn in September 1972. (BR Database). It was scrapped at Swindon Works in November the same year. (BR Database).







9th February 1963 and 8433 (built as late as March 1953) which was last in post #1267 light engine at Paddington. 8433 moved to Old Oak Common in March 1963 from Swindon where it had been allocated in December 1955 and was withdrawn in June 1965 (BR Database). It went to TW Ward, Briton Ferry for scrapping which had occurred by the end of October 1965 (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[daifly]

7816 had acquired OHLE flashes by 1964 but still had the GWR tender. Seen here on a train of SR stock leaving Betchworth Station.


From a photo in my collection.
Dave

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

7816 had acquired OHLE flashes by 1964 but still had the GWR tender. Seen here on a train of SR stock leaving Betchworth Station.

On any other region the headcode lamps would indicate an express passenger train.

However, as we're on the Southern the lamps are positioned for the Reading-Redhill-Tonbridge line. The sun's angle tells us the train is heading towards Reading.

 

[GreenAyre42]

'Manor Class 7816 Frilsham Manor was seen previously in post #4677 and here it’s hauling failed Hymek D7037 on a Cardiff arrival at Paddington'

With about a full load of coal, the Hymek's failure can't have been far out of Paddington.

 

[oldravendale]

That photo of yours shows up the "GWR" very clearly, Dave @daifly. I guess that tender was never repainted... Thanks too for yours, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . And that full load of coal is rather a give away, @GreenAyre42 so I guess you must be correct. By the time of the photo the Manors were becoming spread around the system and although previously a rare beast in London I remember one at Southall. The loco was based at Reading at the time of the photo so had quite likely been commandeered off a shed close to London where it was likely being serviced.

Castle 7031 Cromwell’s Castle at Paddington on 9th February 1963 I'm guessing but possibly on empty compartment stock. I'm pretty sure that the local services out of Paddington had been dieselised by this date so I wonder what the compartment stock had been used for. We've seen this loco previously in posts #1226 and #2527. Cromwell's Castle was a Worcester engine from March 1962 being withdrawn in July 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1964 at Cashmore's Newport. (Rail UK). I’m particularly fond of the second photo in this group which was one I printed for Tim.



Princess 46209 Princess Beatrice on the 4.25 Wolverhampton train at Euston on 25th March 1962. This was most recently in posts #2528 amd2595. 46209 was a Camden engine from January 1962- in fact Camden was it's final shed - and was withdrawn from there in September 1962. (SLS). It ended up at Crewe and was scrapped in November. (BR Database). The first and last last of these three were printed for Tim.







Brian

 

[daifly]

If you drag your eyes away from the loco in the last photo, the lady appears to have a briefcase chained to her wrist!

Dave

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

If you drag your eyes away from the loco in the last photo, the lady appears to have a briefcase chained to her wrist!

Dave

Is it something like a camera, on a wrist chain?

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Given where she's standing and viewing angle, probably a long suffering spouse/girlfriend holding a box camera or camera case!

 

[JimG]

Given where she's standing and viewing angle, probably a long suffering spouse/girlfriend holding a box camera or camera case!

As seen in a pair of pictures some months ago, a young lady was in frame in one picture taking a picture of the loco of interest, and the other picture was pretty obviously the one she was taking. Maybe Brian can remember as I commented at the time.

Jim.

 

[JimG]

As seen in a pair of pictures some months ago, a young lady was in frame in one picture taking a picture of the loco of interest, and the other picture was pretty obviously the one she was taking. Maybe Brian can remember as I commented at the time.

Just found the message in the thread :-

Prototype - Tim Mills' Photos

A sadly very underexposed B1 61393 on an up fitted freight at Hornsey on 7th July 1962. The loco was allocated to New England in November 1959, Kings Cross in February 1960 and Mexborough in June 1963. It was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

...the pair of pictures of 60128 - and the lady is carrying a handbag in her left hand.

Jim.

 

[76043]

Super picture of the locomen, in fact super doesn't do it justice. Perfect composition and timing.
Tony

 

[J_F_S]

Princess 46209 Princess Beatrice on the 4.25 Wolverhampton train at Euston on 25th March 1962

There is a VERY out of gauge pile of coal just waiting to get knocked off the top of the tender - I wonder how far it got up the line? SNCF tenders had a very prominent indicator - "GABARIT - DANGER" (Template - Danger) which should have not been necessary on a Stanier tender which was built-out to the full extent of the loading gauge!

 

[oldravendale]

The lady about whom you ask is Linda, Tim's first wife. She appears in quite a few of his early pictures but not in the later ones....

As I mentioned, Tony @76043 that photo of the loco crew is one of my favourites although, perhaps surprisingly, not one of Tim's. He chose well as far as his pictures for display were concerned but IMHO missed out on some really artistic shots. This one was of it's time and both a great record but also well composed photo.

I'd not noticed the out of gauge coal, @J_F_S but now you mention it... Tim told the story of linesiding at one time and a lump of coal came out of the tender of a loco running very fast straight past his earole. He reckoned it would have brained him if he'd been a few inches to the right.

This one is from a film which is identified in Tim's notes but with no details against the negative numbers after the Princess in the previous post except for the date which was 25th March 1962. I thought the loco number read 46537 but as that didn't exist it must go down as unidentified. As for location, based on other frames I thought it may be Camden but the scene is not one I remember. I'm now wondering whether it could be on the Midland main line but I now not where.



One of my favourites among Tim's photos and one I included in an A3 format book I titled "The Best of The Best" of what I considered to be his finest photos and which I was able to complete and send to him before he died. Seen previously here, in posts #2618, #2631 and #4211, this is Princess Coronation 46233 Duchess of Sutherland at Willesden Junction 25th March 1962 – note the milk tanks on the left. 46233 was an Edge Hill engine in September 1960 and was withdrawn in February 1964. It was, however, an escapee from the cutter's torch and survives in preservation by way of a Butlins holiday camp and Alan Bloom’s collection - see 46233 Duchess of Sutherland (LMS 6233 & BR 46233)



Previously in posts #2804, #2528, #2631 and #4232 Princess 46208 Princess Helena Victoria at Willesden Junction on 25th March 1962. 46208 had been an Edge Hill engine since 1951 and was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). It went to Crewe Works and was scrapped in November. (Rail UK).



V2 60869 having arrived at Kings Cross on a date in 1962 with Brush Type 2 D5645 in the background. The V2 was allocated to New England from November 1942 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in June 1963 (SLS) going to Doncaster Works where it was scrapped on 27th November 1963. (BR Database). D5645 was introduced when new and later known as a Class 30/2 to Finsbury Park on 1st September 1960, went to Stratford in March 1965 and back to Finsbury Park in August 1966 where it was withdrawn in March 1996 being scrapped by Harry Needle at Old Oak Common in February 2002. The loco became became a 31/1 in March 1965 and was renumbered 31220 in January 1974, then a 31/4 in May 1984 when it was renumbered 31441 and finally a 31/5 in April 1990 when it was renumbered 31541. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian.
I would suggest that the mysterious Jubilee is on the approach to Willesden. The industrial chimneys and general skyline seem to tie in with the photo of 46208.
Dave.

 

[JimJim]

Brian.
I would suggest that the mysterious Jubilee is on the approach to Willesden. The industrial chimneys and general skyline seem to tie in with the photo of 46208.
Dave.

I would agree with you .... looks like Willesden No1 signal box with the West London Lines off to the right.

Track Diagram: Willesden No1 (1943)