Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Certainly a 4-COR - notice how clean it is by the reflections.
Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
Certainly a 4-COR - notice how clean it is by the reflections.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the confirmation, Dave @Yorkshire Dave .
Just a single subject today but some jolly nice pictures all featuring A3 60052 Prince Palatine. The first six pictures (img470 and 755-759) are at Carlisle on 5th June 1965 on special 1X18 run by the Scottish Locomotive Preservation Fund. 60052 ran a hot axlebox bearing and was removed from the train at Carlisle. The A3 hauled the train from Edinburgh Waverley to Carlisle via Berwick upon Tweed, Newcastle and Hexham. A4 60027 Merlin (of which there are sadly no photos) took the train from Carlisle back to Edinburgh Waverley by way of Hawick. The seventh photo is at Portobello (img760) and the final two (img625 & 695) are of the loco on a works visit to Darlington between February and May 1965.
60052 was allocated to Gateshead in June/July 1963 and moved to St Margarets in August/September 1963 where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to P W McLellan at Langloan on 20th June 1966. (BR Database).
Brian
Just a single subject today but some jolly nice pictures all featuring A3 60052 Prince Palatine. The first six pictures (img470 and 755-759) are at Carlisle on 5th June 1965 on special 1X18 run by the Scottish Locomotive Preservation Fund. 60052 ran a hot axlebox bearing and was removed from the train at Carlisle. The A3 hauled the train from Edinburgh Waverley to Carlisle via Berwick upon Tweed, Newcastle and Hexham. A4 60027 Merlin (of which there are sadly no photos) took the train from Carlisle back to Edinburgh Waverley by way of Hawick. The seventh photo is at Portobello (img760) and the final two (img625 & 695) are of the loco on a works visit to Darlington between February and May 1965.
60052 was allocated to Gateshead in June/July 1963 and moved to St Margarets in August/September 1963 where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to P W McLellan at Langloan on 20th June 1966. (BR Database).
Brian
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
Interestingly, both 60052 and 60027 were Gresley Pacifics with yellow cab stripes. There were others as well of course [e.g., 60031 Golden Plover] presumably depending on where they were shedded.
Roger Pound
Western Thunderer
My memories of 60052 Prince Palatine go back to the late nineteen-forties and early nineteen-fifties when it was allocated to Leicester Central (38C) and was a regular sight on the principle passenger workings. Regretably it was not so sparkling clean in those days!
Roger
Roger
Dan Randall
Western Thunderer
Notice the lovely maroon Mk1 Corridor Composite in the background, with its “Stretcher” window partially visible, behind the boy in the green & yellow coat….
I wonder how often these inward-opening windows were used for their intended purpose?
Regards
Dan
I wonder how often these inward-opening windows were used for their intended purpose?
Regards
Dan
I remember these odd windows from travelling in the 1970s. I had no idea of the purpose at the time. Possibly the stretcher windows were sealed shut by the time I saw them, because I certainly don’t remember those large latches.
The stretcher windows I believe were always fitted to the middle 2nd class compartment of a CK. This meant there was an external door directly opposite the compartment door. So the stretcher could be loaded/unloaded on either side.
Martin
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks for that, John. Never seen such a thing.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you all for your comments and I'd never previously known about the Stretcher windows either on BR or LMS coaches. All that info is added to the file.
The first two photos (img472 & 473) are of Black 5 4-6-0 44680 on an SLS special at Shrewsbury on 5th March 1967. The final photo (img707) is possibly at the same location and almost certainly on the same train. This was the Farewell to the GWR Birmingham to Birkenhead Service – see The Railtour Files. Two trains ran on the same day and this is almost certainly the second train, 1Z66.
Also see the photo of the unidentified Black 5 in img401 post #5694 on page 285. I’m now pretty sure this is the same train.
Then there’s also Castle 7029 Clun Castle in img359 - 361, 363, 377 and 382 on the same pair of trains. These appear in post #5657 on page 283 and as it’s also at Shrewsbury this is probably the first train 1Z65 as the Black 5 did not call at Shrewsbury on the first train.
Hope you can pick the bones out of that!
The Black 5 was allocated to Crewe South from April/May 1965 and withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering in March 1968. (BR Database). The SLS report it as withdrawn at Crewe South MPD on 29th October 1967.
Brian
The first two photos (img472 & 473) are of Black 5 4-6-0 44680 on an SLS special at Shrewsbury on 5th March 1967. The final photo (img707) is possibly at the same location and almost certainly on the same train. This was the Farewell to the GWR Birmingham to Birkenhead Service – see The Railtour Files. Two trains ran on the same day and this is almost certainly the second train, 1Z66.
Also see the photo of the unidentified Black 5 in img401 post #5694 on page 285. I’m now pretty sure this is the same train.
Then there’s also Castle 7029 Clun Castle in img359 - 361, 363, 377 and 382 on the same pair of trains. These appear in post #5657 on page 283 and as it’s also at Shrewsbury this is probably the first train 1Z65 as the Black 5 did not call at Shrewsbury on the first train.
Hope you can pick the bones out of that!
The Black 5 was allocated to Crewe South from April/May 1965 and withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering in March 1968. (BR Database). The SLS report it as withdrawn at Crewe South MPD on 29th October 1967.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
... And I bet not many people knew that, Paul. Thank you!
Flying Scotsman again! The first two (img476 and 483) are at Hornsey and I believe the third and fourth (img446 & 511) are probably at the same location but I have no indication of the date. In fact the more I look at it the more convinced I become that the fourth photo is indeed at Hornsey.
Then four pictures (img485, 487, 488 and 810) of the loco at Kings Cross on “The Norfolkman”. I couldn’t locate this on Six Bells Junction so don’t have a date. I suspect img486, the ninth photo, may be the same train.
img484, the penultimate one in this group, is another photo in a series at Southall, see post #5607 page 281. The image numbers in that post are img305, 313, 317, 375 and 452. These earlier photos carry this description: These photos of Flying Scotsman were taken at Southall. The special train was the Railway Magazine sponsored Welsh Mystery Flyer to Cardiff Central, Bassalleg and Bargoed of 9th October 1965 which 4472 hauled as far as Swindon and then failed. See The Railtour Files I guess the rumour mill was circulating at the time as Tim’s notes suggest that the loco was sabotaged.
The final photo, img454 is of 4472 on the Farnborough Flyer from Doncaster to Farnborough and return on 10th September 1966 although I have no information about the location. For details of the train see The Railtour Files
I believe that's all the remaining photos of Flying Scotsman...
Brian
LarryG
Western Thunderer
I sat in the cab talking with Alan Pegler when 'Flying Scotsman' was on display in Chester General around 1966. No one bothered us, but I suppose steam was still around and it wasn't the novelty it would soon become. I missed the March 1967 last steam workings on the W.Region although I heard the whistles between Chester and Birkenhead (I was driving for McAlpines that day taking an engineer home.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
An interesting memory there, Larry. Some of the next set of photos may be of particular interest to you in view of the "missed" last steam workings on the WR.
While we’re dealing with now preserved locos I’ve pulled together the remaining so far unpublished photos of Clun Castle. Identification of each photo has not been the easiest of tasks so I’ve grouped them according to the train with which I believe they are associated.
The first, img370 is of the loco at an unspecified location and an unknown date. This may be Southall but it doesn’t have the right feel to it. However the second, img477 is at Southall and the date is 27th November 1965 so this may be associated with the last steam hauled train from Paddington - The Railtour Files and the other photos of the loco at Southall in preparation for the train are in post #5627 page 282. It’s even possible that the next one taken at Paddington, img514, is the train in question but there’s nothing associated with the slide to give any idea of date.
The next one, img605, is a rather lovely shot but I have no details of either location or date. Bearing in mind some of the other photos we’ve seen could it be at Shrewsbury?
Three more here, img700, 701 & 702 of the loco turning at an unspecified location. I started off by wondering if this could be on “The Zulu” The Railtour Files , one of two trains it operated on 4th March 1967 and turning for the return journey, possibly at Chester but probably not as Six Bells Junction shows the loco wearing a headboard on that occasion. Could it, however, be on the 5th March 1967 and on the SLS “Farewell to the GWR Birmingham-Birkenhead Service” where Six Bells Junction The Railtour Files shows it operated the trains from Tyseley to Birkenhead via Birmingham Snow Hill and back from Birkenhead to Snow Hill without a head board? That means it would be turning at Birkenhead, I suppose and I have no idea how likely that would be.
Edit. These three photos are at Shrewsbury.
The final photo in this group, img717 is definitely on the Birkenhead Flyer of 4th March 1967 although the location is unknown. I guess this could be Shrewsbury in view of the other photos taken in the area at the time.
Edit. I've just realised that this is not Clun Castle but is 4079, Pendennis Castle. I'll now research the association of the loco with the Birkenhead Flyer... Comments will follow as an addition to this post.
I'd clearly not registered the locos on the Birkenhead Flyer rather than the Zulu of the same date. 4079 was on the Birkenhead Flyer 1X82 whereas 7029 was on The Zulu 1X83.
Brian
While we’re dealing with now preserved locos I’ve pulled together the remaining so far unpublished photos of Clun Castle. Identification of each photo has not been the easiest of tasks so I’ve grouped them according to the train with which I believe they are associated.
The first, img370 is of the loco at an unspecified location and an unknown date. This may be Southall but it doesn’t have the right feel to it. However the second, img477 is at Southall and the date is 27th November 1965 so this may be associated with the last steam hauled train from Paddington - The Railtour Files and the other photos of the loco at Southall in preparation for the train are in post #5627 page 282. It’s even possible that the next one taken at Paddington, img514, is the train in question but there’s nothing associated with the slide to give any idea of date.
The next one, img605, is a rather lovely shot but I have no details of either location or date. Bearing in mind some of the other photos we’ve seen could it be at Shrewsbury?
Three more here, img700, 701 & 702 of the loco turning at an unspecified location. I started off by wondering if this could be on “The Zulu” The Railtour Files , one of two trains it operated on 4th March 1967 and turning for the return journey, possibly at Chester but probably not as Six Bells Junction shows the loco wearing a headboard on that occasion. Could it, however, be on the 5th March 1967 and on the SLS “Farewell to the GWR Birmingham-Birkenhead Service” where Six Bells Junction The Railtour Files shows it operated the trains from Tyseley to Birkenhead via Birmingham Snow Hill and back from Birkenhead to Snow Hill without a head board? That means it would be turning at Birkenhead, I suppose and I have no idea how likely that would be.
Edit. These three photos are at Shrewsbury.
The final photo in this group, img717 is definitely on the Birkenhead Flyer of 4th March 1967 although the location is unknown. I guess this could be Shrewsbury in view of the other photos taken in the area at the time.
Edit. I've just realised that this is not Clun Castle but is 4079, Pendennis Castle. I'll now research the association of the loco with the Birkenhead Flyer... Comments will follow as an addition to this post.
I'd clearly not registered the locos on the Birkenhead Flyer rather than the Zulu of the same date. 4079 was on the Birkenhead Flyer 1X82 whereas 7029 was on The Zulu 1X83.
Brian
Last edited:
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Oh dear Brian, the loco in the last photo is no. 4079 rather than no. 4073, so "Pendennis Castle".
Rgds, Graham
gateman 49
Member
Can I take you back to post 5759 on 30th. March showing the GWS stock at the Taplow open day.
The identity of the coach behind 6106 was stated as maybe an Ocean Saloon. In fact the coach immediately behind the loco is 9112 Queen Mary and I think that the other coach (also with inset end doors) is 9118 Princess Elizabeth. Both were in fact originally designated as Super Saloons and they were built to replace the stock used for the short lived Torquay Pullman. According to Jim Russell, Princess Elizabeth was rebuilt in 1935 to provide a kitchen at one end. If I'm right with it's identity the more utilitarian kitchen windows (which were inserted to replace two larger windows of a coupe compartment) are at the far end of that second coach.
By the way the painted non standard buffer beam number jarred with me!
The identity of the coach behind 6106 was stated as maybe an Ocean Saloon. In fact the coach immediately behind the loco is 9112 Queen Mary and I think that the other coach (also with inset end doors) is 9118 Princess Elizabeth. Both were in fact originally designated as Super Saloons and they were built to replace the stock used for the short lived Torquay Pullman. According to Jim Russell, Princess Elizabeth was rebuilt in 1935 to provide a kitchen at one end. If I'm right with it's identity the more utilitarian kitchen windows (which were inserted to replace two larger windows of a coupe compartment) are at the far end of that second coach.
By the way the painted non standard buffer beam number jarred with me!
This can be a wonderful thread, but sometimes it can be sad. How much good expensive colour film was expended on the few "star" locos over and over again.
Look at
How many of that crowd took a few minutes out to record the GWR Mink, coach alongside and the largely hidden crane, all in a very faded BR breakdown train red. In 1965 the really old railway was fading fast, the modernisation plan had really come home and fleets of elderly unfitted stock were going to the breakers by the hundred thousand, followed by all those "spare" coaches that Beeching despaired of.
Paul
Look at
img701. TM. 7029. Location Unknown. Mid 1960s. copyright FINAL JPEG Resized.jpg
How many of that crowd took a few minutes out to record the GWR Mink, coach alongside and the largely hidden crane, all in a very faded BR breakdown train red. In 1965 the really old railway was fading fast, the modernisation plan had really come home and fleets of elderly unfitted stock were going to the breakers by the hundred thousand, followed by all those "spare" coaches that Beeching despaired of.
Paul