Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Martin Shaw]

Particularly in view of Jim's @JimG comments above I'm confident in saying that this photo is of V1 2-6-2T 67631 at Glasgow Charing Cross

The name board to the right of the engine rather gives it away Brian, however IMG#743 is at Queen St Low Level.

Yeadon has some varying info re allocations of 69188 which runs,
Bathgate 2/20, Eastfield by 8/6/29, Aberdeen 14/11/34, Eastfield 12/35, Kittybrewster 2/36, Eastfield 10/36, Aberdeen 3/38, Parkhead 12/41, Eastfield 1/6/42, Wdn 1/10/62, Cut up Cowlairs 7/12/62.

In #749 the train is passing a Midland signal box which might impact on location.

Martin

 

[oldravendale]

The name board to the right of the engine rather gives it away Brian, however IMG#743 is at Queen St Low Level.

In #749 the train is passing a Midland signal box which might impact on location.

Martin

Hmmm! Thanks Martin. That station name board rather gives the game away, doesn't it? And your advice about Queen Street Low Level is much appreciated. When I get round to it the commentary will be changed by way of an edit. Thanks also for the info and source about 69188 which is likely to be more accurate than my info, I suspect.

That Midland signal box niggles. I wouldn't expect one near Willesden or Old Oak. Maybe Dave @Yorkshire Dave will be along in a minute to advise.

Two photos here of Fowler 2-6-4T 42335 at a misty Cricklewood on 22nd November 1961. The loco was allocated to Kentish Town from January 1960, moved to Rowsley in August and then Derby in November 1962 before Rowsley took it back in June 1963 and Barrow in Furness took ownership a month later where it was withdrawn in April 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped in June the same year (BR Database) at Crewe Works. (WHTS).





I started by thinking this was a “grabbed shot” from a passing train but I’m now thinking it’s more likely from Neasden Station. Which ever it is it’s a shot I really like and reminds me of the rare occasions when we’d catch one of the ex GWR 57XX panniers out of the depot in daylight hours from a passing Bakerloo Line train. In fact my earliest memories at Neasden featured the ex-Met Railway 0-4-4Ts and 0-6-2Ts. Enough nostalgia. This is 57XX 0-6-0PT L94, the erstwhile 7752 at Neasden on 22nd November 1961.

When in main line stock 7752 was allocated to Tondu from at least 1946 and was withdrawn in November 1959. (BR Database). By the end of the same month it had become London Transport property as L94. (SLS). It hauled the last steam train on ‘The Met’ on 6th June 1971 (I was there!) so was then withdrawn from its second career. For further details see

7752

7752 was built by the North British Locomotive Company Ltd, Glasgow in November 1930 for the Great Western Railway Company. Delivered to Swindon factory, 7752 started life at Aberdare, where it was…

preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com

Jubilee Class 45597 Barbados in the Roundhouse at Kentish Town on 22nd November 1961 .in the series Tim named “Sunlight and Shadow”. There is much less history about this engine than normal but BR Database advises that the loco was allocated to Chester in February 1936 and Holbeck in January 1948 where it was withdrawn in January 1965. It then went to Drapers, Hull (RO) where it was scrapped in April 1965. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

In #749 the train is passing a Midland signal box which might impact on location.

That Midland signal box niggles. I wouldn't expect one near Willesden or Old Oak. Maybe Dave @Yorkshire Dave will be along in a minute to advise.

I think this is Neasden Junction - It is very close to the images in the section headed At Work – Signal Box Photos – Ted Dickson

These are annotated extracts from the NLS OS 1948-1974 1:2,500 A edition to show the location and wider area context.

Neasden Station circled in red, Neasden Junction MR Signal Box circled in blue. Magenta arrow is towards Cricklewood yard.



And in the wider locale.

 

[John Palmer]

The rearmost vehicle of the short NPCS train in img746 and img747 is probably an LMS 6-wheeled Combination Truck, from either diagram 1871 or 1872. Dimensional differences of no more than a few inches between the two diagrams make it hard to say which is portrayed.

The leading vehicle seems to be one of the 163 LMS Period I gangwayed carriages converted to use in ambulance trains in the Second World War, and thereafter converted once again into passenger full brakes. Two diagrams involved: D2129 and D2130, with fairly minor dimensional and layout differences between the two. The ambulance train conversions drew from a range of carriage types, mostly open thirds, side corridor composites and third brakes, but with a leavening of other brake vehicles, so that the external differences between vehicles of such varied origin were considerable. Location of the lookout at the end of these vehicles immediately distinguishes them from the commonplace 50' length LMS vehicles built for service from the outset as full brakes, which have centrally-located duckets.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Dave @Yorkshire Dave - you've come up trumps again! Bearing in mind the location of other photos taken at the time I believe your proposal is almost certainly correct. Thanks for yours as well, John @John Palmer. I always find it interesting to have more details about the vehicles which, at the time, we sadly ignored in favour of the locos.

Original West Country 34101 Hartland seen in these pages several times previously but most recently in post #3852 and here it’s at Wandsworth Road Station on 13th September 1958. It was a Stewarts Lane loco at the time, and had been since new in March 1950 although had been in and out of store in the time before being rebuilt in September 1960 and going to Bricklayers Arms in May 1961 but moving to Brighton in June 1962, Nine Elms a year later and Eastleigh in September 1964 where it was withdrawn in July 1966. (SLS). It went to Woodham Bros for scrap but never succumbed and details of its later life are at 34101 Hartland



Standard Class 4 2-6-0 76034 light engine at Liverpool Street on 9th July 1958 – one of the range of “Sunlight and Shadow” photos I printed for Tim. The loco was allocated to Stratford when new in December 1953, moved to Norwich Thorpe in November 1960, March in October 1961, Brighton in December 1962 and Guildford in September 1963 where it was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at P Woods (Shipbreaking), Queenborough in October 1964. (BR Database).

Notable are the train spotters on the platform but I preferred to be on the taxi road ramp to the left of the B1 where more train spotters can be seen in the background.



Empty stock at Liverpool Street in the hands of B1 61096 on 9th July 1958. This was a Cambridge engine from October 1957 or 1958 – I personally prefer 1957 as previous to that it was at Sheffield Darnall from December 1951 and it’s a helluva long way from Sheffield to Liverpool Street! However, after Cambridge the loco went to Spittal Bridge in December 1958 and March in February 1960 where it was withdrawn in September 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1963 at Central Wagon Co, Wigan. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Seen in post #4618 this is Class B17 61611 Raynham Hall and here on the turntable at Liverpool Street on 9th July 1958. At the time it was allocated to Ipswich where it had been since January 1957, ending up at Norwich Thorpe in August 1959 and withdrawal in the following October. (SLS). It entered Doncaster Works for disposal on 14th October 1959 and was observed there on 21st November (WHTS) although BR Database records a scrapping date of October 1959.



Britannia 70008 Black Prince light engine at Liverpool Street on 9th July 1958. Previously in post #4611 it went to Norwich Thorpe when new in April 1951 (BR Database), then March in September 1961 before migrating to Carlisle Kingmoor in December 1963 where it was withdrawn in January 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Campbells, Airdrie, in May 1967. (BR Database).



E4 0-6-2T 32557 and I printed this in the series “Station Pilots”. Here it’s at Waterloo on 8th May 1962. We've seen this loco a lot previously, for example in posts #2544, #3401 and #3433. Although a Brighton engine by design it had moved to Nine Elms in November 1961. It was withdrawn in December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Eastleigh Works by the end of October 1963. (Rail UK).
It is interesting to note that, despite the "official" allocation shown above the loco is clearly carrying a 73B Bricklayers Arms shed plate which, according to the SLS it left in November 1961 to go to Nine Elms. Note the coal hammer tucked in beside the bunker as described and modelled by Dave @Yorkshire Dave . Doubtless this was used to give the brake cylinders alongside the cab a good belt when the piston seized up - witness the dents! There's also one of those dratted 57XX pannier tanks (drafted in to replace the M7s and E4s) in the left background.





Lord Nelson 30861 Lord Anson reversing out of Waterloo Station on 8th May 1962. By now it was an Eastleigh engine having been allocated there in June 1956. It was withdrawn on 6th October 1962 (SLS) and scrapped in Eastleigh Works week ending 24th November 1962.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Previously in post #2389 is A3 60077 The White Knight here leaving Kings Cross on 10th May 1962. It had received trough deflectors in July 1961. This was an Ardsley engine from September 1961 moving across the border to St Margarets in July 1963 where it was withdrawn a year later. (SLS). It was scrapped at Arnott Young, Carmyle, in October 1964. (BR Database). It was seen stored in Ardsley MPD on 10th March 1963. (SLS). The second photo is such a classic, the train having started moving and with the driver leaning out of the cab window to see the road ahead.





V2 2-6-2 60975 at Kings Cross on 10th May 1962 and it appears to be on a parcels train. The local platforms from the widened lines are on the left. The loco was a long time resident of York North having arrived there in September 1943 and was withdrawn in May 1964. (BR Database). BR Database also advises the loco was unusually scrapped at Swindon Works although it advises this was in August 1964 whereas the SLS has a report of it in Swindon Works scrap yard in September. Furthermore the Railway Observer reports the loco outside Swindon Works on 26th August then on the Works Dump on 27th September 1964. In the colour images yet to come there are a few photos of this scene but further back along the local platforms after these were abandoned.



N7 0-6-2T 69614 carrying a 30A Stratford shed plate at Liverpool Street Station probably on 9th July 1960 and a photograph printed several times. It's one of very few photos which has been reproduced elsewhere with the agreement of the family. This was one of the famous Liverpool Street pilots which were kept in sparkling condition and it’s been mentioned in despatches several times but most notably in post #4252. It became an N7/4 in February 1940 and despite appearances to the contrary the condensers were removed in May 1936. It was at Parkeston Quay in April 1949 and then to Stratford in August 1951. It was withdrawn in December 1960 (SLS) and scrapped at Stratford Works in March 1961. (RO).



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

N7 0-6-2T 69614 carrying a 30A Stratford shed plate at Liverpool Street Station probably on 9th July 1960 and a photograph printed several times. It's one of very few photos which has been reproduced elsewhere with the agreement of the family. This was one of the famous Liverpool Street pilots which were kept in sparkling condition and it’s been mentioned in despatches several times but most notably in post #4252. It became an N7/4 in February 1940 and despite appearances to the contrary the condensers were removed in May 1936. It was at Parkeston Quay in April 1949 and then to Stratford in August 1951. It was withdrawn in December 1960 (SLS) and scrapped at Stratford Works in March 1961. (RO).

Not only a nice photo of the subject but also captures a slice of social history with at least four employees recruited from the Windrush Generation.

 

[oldravendale]

It's interesting that you mention the association of that photo with the Windrush Generation Dave @Yorkshire Dave because it was used in an article about that very subject which I'm sorry to say I can't now reference.

B1 61109 which crept in to the picture of a Britannia in post #4874 here light engine at Liverpool Street Station on 9th July 1960. It had quite an interesting history being allocated to Stratford in March 1949 and loaned to Stewarts Lane on 18th May 1953 – this was possibly when there was a problem with the Bulleid Pacifics – although returned to Stratford on 23rd May before going to Sheffield Darnall in December 1960, Canklow in June 1963 and New England in November the same year before being withdrawn in July 1964. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to King’s of Norwich in August the same year. (BR Database).



Britannia 70039 Sir Christopher Wren on The Hook Continental arrival at Liverpool Street on 9th July 1960. Seen previously in posts #2017, #4126, #4595 and #4611 the loco lived at Norwich Thorpe from February 1959 (it's carrying a 32A Norwich Thorpe shed plate), then Immingham from the end of 1960 and in December 1963 went to Carlisle Upperby ending up at Carlisle Kingmoor in March 1964 where it was withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It then went to J McWilliams at Shettleston where it was scrapped by the end of January 1968. (BR Database).



An L1 2-6-4T, 67709, light engine at Liverpool Street on 9th July 1960. The loco was allocated to Stratford from January 1959 and was withdrawn on 4th December 1960 (SLS) being scrapped at Stratford Works (Yeadons Vol 16) where it was seen in a withdrawn state on 31st July 1961. (SLS).



K3 61880 on a down Cambridge line train at Bethnal Green on 9th July 1960 and printed for Tim in his "Lineside Views" series. The loco went on to the allocation at Cambridge in February 1959 and Ardsley in June the same year, then March in December 1961 where it was withdrawn in September 1962. (SLS). BR Database reports that it was scrapped at some time in 1963 and WHTS that the deed was done at Cashmore’s Great Bridge where it arrived on 15th June 1963.



Brian

 

[hrmspaul]

img764 TM5 Film ID20 70039 Hook arrival Livepool St 9 Jul 60 copyright FINAL.jpg​

Not unexpected but a GER van alongside. Vacuum brake makes it more unusual. Some of these lasted, in internal use, well into the 1980s and subject of a recent 4mm Oxford Rail model. as well as a 7mm kit Great Eastern Ventilated Van​

Paul

LNER and constituents vans, includes Fruit, Fish, Meat

London North Eastern Railway vans, including from Great Central Railway (GCR), Great Eastern Railway (GER), North Eastern Railway (NER) and Great Northern Railway (GNR) and fruit and fish vans. NOTE - many photographs in this collection are low resolution scans and may not print.

paulbartlett.zenfolio.com

 

[oldravendale]

I'd have had no idea about that van without your advice, Paul @hrmspaul so many thanks.

Only two photos today for reasons which will become obvious on the next post.

Previously in posts #2683 and #3819 is N7/5 69646 on a down Chingford local train at Bethnal Green on 9th July 1960. It was a Stratford engine and had been since 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in September 1962. (BR Database and SLS). It was scrapped at Stratford Works by the end of January 1963. (Rail UK).



Class A1 60140 Balmoral at Kings Cross in May 1963. It’s light engine so possibly about to back on to its train, although it may have come in coupled with another loco and awaiting release. The A1 had been a York North engine since early June 1950 ((SLS), was withdrawn in January 1965 and sold for scrap to Draper’s, Hull in March the same year. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

iA lot of script here which is why this post concentrates on a single subject.

An unusual and interesting series of the re-railing of a 57XX pannier tank, 9755 carrying an 81A Old Oak shed plate, at Old Oak Common Yard. It looks very much as though the loco has split the points. The first and fourth images were seen on 6th August 2019 in thread The Gauge O Guild - Guildex Telford which had some comments about fally-offy trains. My comments which feel as though they were a lifetime ago – sadly for Tim they were – read “Pannier 9755 at Old Oak Common May 1963. Copyright Tim Mills. These are shots from Tim's extensive collection which I'm about to start processing and selecting a number for a photo display at Loughborough GCR at the January gala. He's kindly and generously given me free access to all his negatives and slides (the slides are already dealt with) so more from his wonderful collection very soon. (Tim and I were among the earliest volunteers in the very late '60s for the Main Line Preservation Group which became the GCR so have been good friends for 50 years).”

In fact believing that I had dealt with all his slides was entirely incorrect. Since then I’ve received over four thousand, most of which are now scanned, although a goodly number of them are family photos and pictures of London Routemasters with which Tim was besotted!

Anyway, details of the loco are that 9755 was an Old Oak Common engine from April 1962 and was withdrawn in late April or early May 1963 (SLS). It was at Didcot from February until April 1962. It was seen in May, Jun & July 1963 at Old Oak Common probably in store (WHTS) which suggests that the loco saw no further work after this incident. The Railway Observer advises it went to Mumford’s at Plaistow for disposal but WHTS proposes Meyer Newman, Blackwall despatched dead engine from Old Oak on 30th October 1963. (RO). BR Database advises a scrapping date of January 1964.











Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

I had an N gauge model of a 57xx many years back which was prone to do the same thing............ !

Roger.

 

[hrmspaul]

img765 TM6 Film ID20 67709 light Liverpool St 9 Jul 60 copyright FINAL.jpg​

This BR built loco had a life of a little more than 12 years. Shorter than a few of the class, but non appear to have survived into 1963 BRDatabase, locomotive allocations, withdrawals and scrapping details in the UK

Can someone explain why they were so short lived compared, for example, with LMS 2-6-4T from the Fowler design onwards.

Paul Bartlett

 

[40057]

img765 TM6 Film ID20 67709 light Liverpool St 9 Jul 60 copyright FINAL.jpg​

This BR built loco had a life of a little more than 12 years. Shorter than a few of the class, but non appear to have survived into 1963 BRDatabase, locomotive allocations, withdrawals and scrapping details in the UK

Can someone explain why they were so short lived compared, for example, with LMS 2-6-4T from the Fowler design onwards.

Paul Bartlett

My assumption would be principally redundancy. Their work had either disappeared or been taken over by Diesels/electrics.

 

[40057]

I had an N gauge model of a 57xx many years back which was prone to do the same thing............ !

Roger.

More realistic than you realised.

 

[hrmspaul]

img774 TM 5AFilm ID95 9755 Old Oak May 63. copyright FINAL. Approved.jpg​

Has anyone identified the crane?

Looking through the Tatlow monographs Ransomes and Rapier provided cranes to the GWR as no. 1, 2 and 3 and later, 4 of a MoSupply standard crane early in WW2. To me it looks like it could well be one of these later ones and he records no. 16 (BR ADRR95211) as being at OOC from 1940 until January 1979. The part of the runner that can be seen is unlike those used for 1 - 3 GWR Cranes | ADW150435 ex DW2A MATCH GWR Crane 2 @ Swindon Works 75-09-13 � Paul Bartlett w GWR Cranes | ADW150434 ex DW2 Match wagon GWR Crane 2 @ Swindon Works 75-09-13 � Paul Bartlett w I cannot see a clear photo of the runner that went with MoS but the photo doesn't show this one taken in 1963 ADW16 by Peter Winch that website also has photos of the other 3 GW cranes of this period - search for 95208 95212 95213 . Non have a match or jib carrier that appears similar to Tim's photo.

Did Tim take any of the crane and runner/match?

Paul

 

[Roger Pound]

More realistic than you realised.

Perhaps it is a weekness in the breed.........?

Roger

 

[76043]

The story of the L1's @hrmspaul is complicated according to the RCTS green books. I've read it, noted it and have completely forgotten everything. Maybe I should read it again.... Either way highly recommended.
Tony

 

[Peter Insole]

I love the chalked legend on 9755's smokebox... "Fireball XL5"!

If that had been applied before the mishap - which almost looks as if it was - then it may have been someone who anticipated that it, or the regular driver was perceived to be utterly determined to head for the stratosphere at the end of the line?!

Pete.