Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

And now for something completely different..... (Wish I'd thought of that).

This is "Glasgow St Enock. August 1955." It's a Fowler 2P 40592 which appears to have spent its entire life in Scotland. At the time it was a Hurlford, 65B, engine and had been since January 1951. It was withdrawn from Hurlford in December 1961. (SLS). It was recorded as in store at Kilmarnock Works at the end of August 1961 (SLS) and was then recorded by the LCGB and Railway Observer until June 1963. It was scrapped at Connell's, Coatbridge according to the Railway Observer and BR Database advises it was scrapped in July 1963 which fits quite nicely. To my eye the 2P was one of the most elegant of locos. There were a couple at Watford which used to head a local parcels train through Harrow every day. I had (may still have) some Olde Englishe pennies squashed by one.

Personally I'm particularly drawn to the adverts for bikes on the side of an adjacent building.



Brian

 

[Crimson Rambler]

At last a proper engine (he says somewhat tongue in cheek).


Crimson Rambler

 

[LarryG]

Lazy lining and larger than LMR cabside numerals ~ two Scottish trademarks. Lovely engines, cabbed one and rode behind them from Chester to Abergele while on hols. The heart beat strong watching these locos pound out of Manchester Exchange at the head or tail of Trans-Pennine expresses.

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

The fireman relieving himself over the back of the tender is an interesting observation that must be worth modelling.

Brian ,this thread is superb, always looking forward to seeing the next snap,

thanks
Tim

 

[Martin Shaw]

The blessed St Enoch, what a wonderful station that was although sadly it had gone by the time I arrived in the dear green place. I think it likely the engine had worked a local from Kilmarnock, either via the GB&K or Neilston and was off to turn somewhere, although actually where doesn't immediately strike me, possibly Corkerhill which was the GSW shed in Glasgow. Wonderful picture though.
Regards
Martin

PS Brian,please note the spelling of Enoch.

I found a 1933 map that shows an engine shed and turntable within the triangle of lines at St Enoch, I think that by the 1950s the shed may have been out of use but I suspect the TT was still operational

 

[oldravendale]

My error, Martin. Tim's description is "St Enoch". Thank you for pointing out the error.

Good photo, though.

Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

To my eye the 2P was one of the most elegant of locos.

I don't disagree Brian, the Midland influence that Clayton took with him to Ashford is immediately apparent in an L or L1. Personally the SECR will always be first choice but that is perhaps more due to geographical loyalty rather than a purely aesthetic consideration. The 2Ps were apparently well liked in Scotland and they lasted until very near the end of steam, the influx of Fairburn and BR 2-6-4 classes rather did for them though by the late 50s.
Regards
Martin

 

[76043]

For me, Colin Walker is my favourite railway photographer. Very creative work that would easily make it into the Photographer's Gallery in London in my opinion.

Keep these shots coming though, so much to absorb from them.

Cheers

Tony

 

[LarryG]

Scottish footplate crews took well to the Crabs, 2P's, Compounds and 4F's and, from what I have read over the years, Scottish footplate crews were very particular about engines pushed on them from England. Many classes failed to satisfy on the grounds of braking and there circulated a comical story about an LNWR 0-8-0 actually accelerating on a brake test in Scotland.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

That’s a classic view of St Enoch with an engine taking water at the big tank before turning. Some went round the Saltmarket Triangle and some used the table in the old shed yard. I’m not sure if that white object above the left buffer is the semaphore indicator but if it is it shows it to have been a St Enoch-Kilmarnock via Dalry train.

I came on the scene just a bit late to see many in service, 40602 was a favourite and always fairly clean, but I do remember very well the lines of 2Ps stored at Hurlford and Ayr waiting scrapping. The Ayrshire lines were the last stronghold where they worked Ardrossan - Kilmarnock- Darvel, Kilmarnock - Ayr - Dalmellington.

The 2Ps were very well liked on the old G&SWR and worked passenger services from their introduction in the early 20’s until displaced by the dmus in the early 60’s. When they appeared the Sou West men took to them like fish to water. Robert Whitelegg had ruined most of the indigenous Sou West locos with a disastrous remodelling of the valve gear to reduce moving parts. What seemed a good idea actually ruined the performance by completely altering the valve events which in effect strangled the cylinders. He turned good, but run down by the war, locomotives into shadows of their former self. So when these new efficient engines came on the scene they were welcomed with open arms.

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all for so much additional info. It will be added......

Next. This falls into the Quite Interesting Category. Tim just supplies as the accompanying info "Crewe Station August 1956", but there's more to be gained from studying the photo. Most obvious initially is that it's an original version "Patriot". Initially I was frustrated at being able to read 4550? but further study shows that the wheel centres are appropriate for one of the initial two, and the badge above the nameplate confirms that this is 45501, St Dunstan's. At the time it was a Longsight loco and had been since June 1948 and moved to Crewe North in June 1958 but after 1958 it wandered around the system a bit, ending up at Carlisle Upperby in September 1960 from where it was withdrawn in August 1961. (SLS). It then went to Crewe Works where it was recorded on 10th September 1961 (Railway Observer) where it was scrapped the same month. (BR Database). Who would have believed at the time that a new build was even possible?



Brian

 

[LarryG]

The original Patriot with LNWR wheels has two interesting coaches behind it. A D1932 corridor composite, which introduced a new chassis length of 62ft to the LMS. Behind it is an early Stanier third class dining car to D1861 with shallow window vents.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Larry. If there was anyone on this thread who could give that information it was always going to be you. Very grateful.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

For today one of Mickoo's favourites - well it wasn't until he travelled behind 120 on the GCR, but that's another story. The title to this one is "Passing Vauxhall 30th November 1957". It's T9 30718, arguably one of the most graceful and successful of Drummond's locomotives. I travelled behind one of these (30117), double headed with an E1 many moons ago. In 1957 30718 was still working out of Nine Elms and had been since at least 1949 but moved in June 1959 to Exmouth Junction from where it was withdrawn in April 1961 - a life of over sixty years. (SLS). It was then recorded by the Railway Observer in Eastleigh Works and photographed there in April 1961 where according to the Railway Observer it was cut up in the week ending 22nd April 1961.



Brian

 

[JimG]

Still got dome mounted safety valves!!!.

Jim.

 

[oldravendale]

Still got dome mounted safety valves!!!.

Jim.

So did 117 on our 1961 trip..... as did all T9s, M7s, 700s and the Wenford Branch locos and there was at least one Drummond boiler on a Lyme Regis loco too. Some B4s still had Drummond boilers at wthdrawal and at least a few of the 02s carried Drummond boilers at one time although by withdrawal I believe all those boilers had been changed.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

This is a class of loco I really liked. The title says it all, really. "Urie H15 4-6-0 Stored Salisbury 30 November 1957." The only thing missing n the description is the specific loco details. It's 30335 allocated (not surprisingly) to Salisbury at the time and it had been there since November 1950. It's not recorded as having been in store in November 1957 but it's not altogether surprising as it was in and out of store throughout its service life. Ultimately it was withdrawn in June 1959. (SLS). The Railway Observer records it at Eastleigh and then scrapped there week ending 5th September 1959.



Brian

 

[AJC]

That's lovely! Not a class I know much about, but unmistakable in appearance. Interesting to see the Bulleid coaches in the background, presumably repainted that year (or revarnished survivors that missed Carmine and Cream?), since they're clearly in overall green.

Adam

 

[Steph Dale]

335 was unusual even amongst the motley collection of 6' 4-6-0s - it was a one-off rebuild of Drummond's (also unique) E14 4-6-0; distinctive as the only one of the ex-Drummond rebuilds with a stepped running plate. Like all the rebuilds she was allocated to Salisbury from beginning to end; as has been remarked many times, Salisbury crews seemed to take a slightly perverse delight in getting the best out of these locos with their large flat grates. She was withdrawn in '59 and so despite being in store when other members of the class were already gone, she did live to turn her wheels again.

Even the tender is remarkable - the unique 4500g prototype 8-wheeler, it had started life behind the first of the Drummond 'double singles', T7 number 720 way back in 1897.

Adam,
Yep, even in '57 there were still a lot of re-varnished Southern green carriages rolling about, the malachite gaining a warmer, darker tone under multiple layers of varnish. However, the BR-standard 14" ventilators suggest they had been introduced in carmine and cream (most later Bulleid stock was) and have been repainted in BR(S) 'stock' green by the time of the photo.

Steph

 

[oldravendale]

Hi Steph.

According to BRDatabase and the SLS records this loco actually spent between June and November 1950 at Nine Elms. Maybe they had the loco there to try it out, didn't like it and sent it back. I know I saw a few H15s in the London area which is, I suppose, not entirely surprising.

Brian