Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Almost certainly this thread can now run for as long as there remains interest in it. I was under the impression that I had all Tim's negatives but a delivery today, which Tim describes as "a few more" must be at least a thousand negs, and I'm a long way from completing the first lot! He's also entrusted me with his notebooks which appear to be a bit random but with some research through the pages should give a history for each of the photos.

This project now looks like years of enjoyable work.

Brian

 

[Dog Star]

This project now looks like years of enjoyable work.

"Enjoyable work"? Surely you meant to write "Enjoyment" as that sentiment can be applied to all of those WTers who are reading the posts.

 

[oldravendale]

"Enjoyable work"? Surely you meant to write "Enjoyment" as that sentiment can be applied to all of those WTers who are reading the posts.

Well said! In this context "enjoyable work" is an oxymoron.

B

 

[Martin Shaw]

Well I'm certainly gaining much enjoyment from it, not least because whilst it seems ages ago and in many ways is, there has yet to be one of Tim's photos taken before I was born, but also for the wide geographical spread taken at a time when travelling about was less common. Please keep at it Brian you bring me daily delights.
Best wishes
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Please keep at it Brian you bring me daily delights.

It's been a few years since anyone said that to me......

 

[oldravendale]

For this one we're still at Salisbury. This is "Salisbury MPD 30th November 1957". It's 84XX pannier tank 8479 with an S15 standing next to it. The best I can do with the number is "308XX". It's a guess but, for example, 30831 was a Salisbury engine. The pannier was a Westbury engine at the time of this photo and had been since new although it was officially allocated there in July 1952 when a few months old, finally going to Radyr in November 1962 from where it was withdrawn in October 1964, so it lasted well for a Western Region loco. (SLS). In mid November 1964 it moved to Barry where it was cut up by March 1965. (WHTS).



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

I told you Brian, daily delights! I must say though I think you have the contrast absolutely spot on in this one, it feels like a November sunny day unlike the one currently being experienced here. A gorgeous picture.
Best wishes
Martin

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Will that be a polished copper cap on the chimney of the pug?

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Definitely looks like it to me, Ian. Doubtless one of our GWR aficionados will confirm that this class had copper capped chimneys. However, they may have a comment to make about calling one of their pannier tanks a pug.

Brian

 

[LarryG]

The pannier (8479) was a Westbury engine at the time of this photo, finally going to Radyr from where it was withdrawn in 1964, so it lasted well for a Western Region loco.

Brian

Sadly, in the context of lifespan of a class, 8479 was built in 1952 and only lasted 12 years. Hawksworth designs had a very bad time of it compared with the other post-war Big-four designs. Anyone remember when modellers had red route restriction 94xx's on their branch lines because it was a Pannier Tank and there wasn't much else at the time.

 

[Martin Shaw]

I'm with Ian here, anything without a tender is a pug, it's just that some are bigger than others. There is however a distinct national or perhaps regional (delete according to political leanings) variation in the meaning of words and in the context of "pug" most folk in certainly the southern half of England would understand it as a small and probably 4 coupled industrial tank engine, whereas in Scotland see above. This is a pug, a Wemyss one to be precise and as big as you would want, but a pug nonetheless.
Martin

 

[simond]

Despite being born & raised in Birkenhead, which I considered to be “the North West”, I must confess to alignment with

most folk in certainly the southern half of England

At least we’re not debating wee snub-nosed dogs...

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

I'm with Ian here, anything without a tender is a pug, it's just that some are bigger than others. There is however a distinct national or perhaps regional (delete according to political leanings) variation in the meaning of words and in the context of "pug" most folk in certainly the southern half of England would understand it as a small and probably 4 coupled industrial tank engine, whereas in Scotland see above. This is a pug, a Wemyss one to be precise and as big as you would want, but a pug nonetheless.
Martin
View attachment 133547

My pug is bigger than yours Martin!

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all! I'm now better educated about Pugs. Quite how a pug can be a ginormous great 4-6-4 tank engine I'll not hope to understand. It's probably something to do with the Romans. They put up that bl**dy great wall.

I'm reminded about my time in Canada when I advised our US Chief Engineer (I was responsible for Production) that I'd be going home for some R & R in a fortnight. He'd not the faintest idea what I was talking about and after the explanation asked why we didn't just say "two weeks". My reply was that "fortnight" was only two syllables. In the midst of winter I also said I'd be putting on my jumper. He fell about. He said it was called a sweater - to my mind a really ugly word.

Divided by a common language.

Brian

PS I must learn to not divert my own thread.......

 

[Crimson Rambler]

Nothing to do with Pugs but perhaps relevant to some of the earlier photos in this series - just watched on Youtube a short clip "1960s Steam Ride - North Woolwich to Palace Gates".

Some of you aficionados of N7s may enjoy it!


Crimson Rambler

 

[Martin Shaw]

Ian
At least I chose one that worked, even if they did end their days humping the back end of trains up Beattock. We had better go no further otherwise that nice Mr Dale will get cross.
Martin

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Martin,
Touché! But the the LMS in Scotland was dominated by ex Caley men!
Sorry Brian end of deviation!
Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Please keep the deviations coming. They keep the thread alive and interesting, as in I didn't appreciate that a "Pug" is something different (approximately) north and south of the border.

However, this next one is, frankly, after the stimulation of previous photos a touch on the boring side despite the fact that it's a favourite class of mine. Additionally it suffers camera shake. This is also "Salisbury MPD 30th November 1957" and is 34031, "Torrington" in pretty immaculate condition, an Exmouth Junction engine in 1957 where it had been allocated since October 1951. In October - November 1958 it was rebuilt and probably immediately went to Nine Elms in January 1959 being withdrawn from Eastleigh where it had been allocated in September 1964 as so many were. this one in February 1965. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's at Newport for scrapping which was completed in May 1965. (BR Database).

I'm hopeful that Yorkshire Dave will be along in a minute to advise what that headcode indicates. Has it just arrived on shed or is it prepared for joining another train and return to the west country?



Brian

 

[AJC]

Hi Brian - the headcode simply indicates a working on the mainline somewhere between London (Waterloo) and Plymouth, in this case at Salisbury where I presume it had been taken off an up or a down working. Given the route-based distinction the discs gave that's all that was necessary. The discs would stay on regardless of direction if the loco was working London turns, I guess?

Adam

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Brian,

according to my M R Bailey 1961 edition it is Waterloo or Nine Elms to Plymouth

Please keep the pictures coming.

regards

Mike