Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Brian
Clarification or confusion from Irwell.

46239 City of Chester Camden 1/6/40, Polmadie (loan) 14/10/44, Camden 11/11/44 (stored 11/11/62 - 8/12/62), Willesden 14/9/63 (stored 22/9/63 - 1/12/63), Crewe North 29/8/64, Wdn w/e 12/9/64, Cut up J.Cashmore Great Bridge 12/64.

46240 City of Coventry Camden 13/4/40, (stored 18/11/62 - 8/12/62, Willesden 7/9/63 (stored 22/9/63 - 1/12/63), Crewe North 29/8/64, Wdn w/e 12/9/64, Cut up J.Cashmore Great Bridge 3/65.

75040 Bedford 8/53, Accrington 10/53, Bedford 1/55, Derby 1/60, Leicester Midland 2/60, Derby 9/62, Stoke on Trent 10/63, Carnforth 6/67,
Wdn 10/67, Sold to G.Cohen Kettering 3/68.
 
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46240

Active Member
Good morning Brian,

Lovely to see more photos of City of Coventry in post #4939, plus the wooden-bodied mineral wagon at Cricklewood.

Seems to be a well-aged one for a relatively late date, with a mixture of grey painted and bare wood planks.
Can't have been many more lasting that late?

Cheers, Nigel.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I must admit that I wondered if there was anything worth commenting upon in that photo, Tony @76043 , so thank you for yours.

Then, Martin @Martin Shaw - thank you for additional info. It's always keeping the further references.

Thanks for yours, Larry. This series probably carries the best of Tim's work - not without some failures along the way, but the average is very good.

And Nigel @46240 - I agree that photo of City of Coventry is really good - well, both of them hit the high bar for me. Thanks too for the comment about the wagon at Cricklewood. Duly noted! :)

Another photo I printed for Tim in his series "Shed Scenes" was Class 04/3 2-8-0 63774 in the shed yard at Staveley on 27th February 1963, the same day as this loco was photographed and appeared in post #2299. In this photo it's clearly carrying a 41H Staveley shed plate, although according to Shed Bash UK this engine was seen withdrawn at Staveley on 14th July 1963 carrying a 41A Sheffield Darnall shed plate. WHTS confirms it was stored at Staveley between 10th March 1963 when it was withdrawn and September 1963. It entered Doncaster Works on 8th October 1963 and was observed on 20th October so was presumably scrapped there shortly afterwards.

img036 TM21 63774 41H Staveley 27 Feb 63 Film ID86 Shed Scenes. copyright FINAL.jpg

Ex GCR Class 04 63701 at Staveley on 27th February 1963. It was allocated there from March 1962, went to Langwith Junction in June 1965 and was withdrawn from there in August the same year. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to Draper’s, Hull in September 1965 where it was cut up at the end of the following November.

img037 TM22 63701 Staveley 27 Feb 63 Film ID86 copyright Final.jpg

Two of Robinson Class 04 2-8-0 63685 with a 41H Staveley shed plate at Staveley on 27th September 1963. It was allocated there from January 1963 and withdrawn in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped by T W Ward, Killamarsh to whom it was sold in June the same year. (BR Database). The second of these was also in Tim's "Shed Scenes" portfolio.

img038 TM23 63685 Staveley 27 Feb 63 Film ID86 copyright Final.jpg

img039  TM24 poss 63685 Staveley 27 Feb 63 Film ID86 Shed Scenes copyright FINAL.jpg

A difficult one, this. We know it’s Staveley on 27th February 1963. I assume it’s an 0-4-0ST industrial loco owned by the Staveley Ironworks. I can’t make out the name to help me identify what it is so help please.

img040 TM25 Industrial 0-4-0ST Ataveley 27 Feb 63 Film ID86 copyright FINAL.jpg

Seen previously in post #2290 is Johnson 1F 0-6-0T 41739 in the yard at Staveley Iron Works on 27th February 1963. According to the SLS this had been resident at Staveley (Barrow Hill) since at least 1954 and was not withdrawn until as late as June 1963. Rail UK advises that it was disposed of at Derby Works at some time in 1963. BR Database says it was immediately on withdrawal, so June 1963. WHTS confirms it went to Derby but is also unable to confirm a scrapping date.

img041 TM26 41739 Staveley 27 Feb 63 Film ID86 copyright FINAL.jpg

Here's 4F 0-6-0 43845 at Willesden in May 1963 – or perhaps June because it was photographed in the same location -see post #2135 and img1763 for a very similar photo. Here there’s Fairburn 2-6-4T 42222 with a 1A (Willesden) shed plate.in the background. The bank running down to the canal is on the right of the photo. The 4F was a Toton engine and had been since July 1956. It carries the correct 18A shed plate. It was withdrawn in July 1963. (SLS). It went to Derby Works (SLS) where it was scrapped in September. (BR Database). The Fairburn moved from Kirkby in Ashfield where it had been allocated since December 1961 and moved to Willesden in the four weeks ending 1st June 1963 (SLS) which suggests that the original dating of May for the photo is probably correct. It was withdrawn from Willesden in May 1965 (SLS) and was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge in October 1965. (BR Database). I well remember that shed building on the right which looked as though it was gradually subsiding in to the canal.

img042 TM3 Film ID MSH 43845 & 42222 Willesden Jun 63 copyright FINAL.jpg

Brian
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
A nice selection - I suspect that others will be able to cite details of the Staveley fleet off the tops of their heads, but I think the loco shown is a product of Markham and Co. - there weren't many of those altogether, and I'm not sure how many Staveley had. Could be this one:


It's not this one, the sole survivor from that maker, but it's such a nice colour image, it's a shame not to link to it:


Adam
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
Ex GCR Class 04 63701 at Staveley on 27th February 1963. It was allocated there from March 1962, went to Langwith Junction in June 1965 and was withdrawn from there in August the same year. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to Draper’s, Hull in September 1965 where it was cut up at the end of the following November.

Just look at the angle of that white stripe on the Mineral. Shocking! :)

Cheers

Jan
 

robertm

Western Thunderer
Well I was always led to believe that the diagonal ran from bottom corner by the side door to the hinge line on the end door. It looks spot on to me…
cheers
Bob
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Delighted to see the selection of 04's. Happy memories of them dashing along the GC through Leicestershire in days long gone. They had a surprising turn of speed too!

Roger.
 

Arun Sharma

Western Thunderer
I must admit that I wondered if there was anything worth commenting upon in that photo, Tony @76043 , so thank you for yours.

Then, Martin @Martin Shaw - thank you for additional info. It's always keeping the further references.

Thanks for yours, Larry. This series probably carries the best of Tim's work - not without some failures along the way, but the average is very good.

And Nigel @46240 - I agree that photo of City of Coventry is really good - well, both of them hit the high bar for me. Thanks too for the comment about the wagon at Cricklewood. Duly noted! :)

Another photo I printed for Tim in his series "Shed Scenes" was Class 04/3 2-8-0 63774 in the shed yard at Staveley on 27th February 1963, the same day as this loco was photographed and appeared in post #2299. In this photo it's clearly carrying a 41H Staveley shed plate, although according to Shed Bash UK this engine was seen withdrawn at Staveley on 14th July 1963 carrying a 41A Sheffield Darnall shed plate. WHTS confirms it was stored at Staveley between 10th March 1963 when it was withdrawn and September 1963. It entered Doncaster Works on 8th October 1963 and was observed on 20th October so was presumably scrapped there shortly afterwards.

View attachment 238244

Ex GCR Class 04 63701 at Staveley on 27th February 1963. It was allocated there from March 1962, went to Langwith Junction in June 1965 and was withdrawn from there in August the same year. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to Draper’s, Hull in September 1965 where it was cut up at the end of the following November.

View attachment 238245

Two of Robinson Class 04 2-8-0 63685 with a 41H Staveley shed plate at Staveley on 27th September 1963. It was allocated there from January 1963 and withdrawn in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped by T W Ward, Killamarsh to whom it was sold in June the same year. (BR Database). The second of these was also in Tim's "Shed Scenes" portfolio.

View attachment 238246

View attachment 238247

A difficult one, this. We know it’s Staveley on 27th February 1963. I assume it’s an 0-4-0ST industrial loco owned by the Staveley Ironworks. I can’t make out the name to help me identify what it is so help please.

View attachment 238248

Seen previously in post #2290 is Johnson 1F 0-6-0T 41739 in the yard at Staveley Iron Works on 27th February 1963. According to the SLS this had been resident at Staveley (Barrow Hill) since at least 1954 and was not withdrawn until as late as June 1963. Rail UK advises that it was disposed of at Derby Works at some time in 1963. BR Database says it was immediately on withdrawal, so June 1963. WHTS confirms it went to Derby but is also unable to confirm a scrapping date.

View attachment 238249

Here's 4F 0-6-0 43845 at Willesden in May 1963 – or perhaps June because it was photographed in the same location -see post #2135 and img1763 for a very similar photo. Here there’s Fairburn 2-6-4T 42222 with a 1A (Willesden) shed plate.in the background. The bank running down to the canal is on the right of the photo. The 4F was a Toton engine and had been since July 1956. It carries the correct 18A shed plate. It was withdrawn in July 1963. (SLS). It went to Derby Works (SLS) where it was scrapped in September. (BR Database). The Fairburn moved from Kirkby in Ashfield where it had been allocated since December 1961 and moved to Willesden in the four weeks ending 1st June 1963 (SLS) which suggests that the original dating of May for the photo is probably correct. It was withdrawn from Willesden in May 1965 (SLS) and was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge in October 1965. (BR Database). I well remember that shed building on the right which looked as though it was gradually subsiding in to the canal.

View attachment 238250

Brian
The engine behind 42222 with the prominent AWS battery box is almost certainly a Britannia class pacific - Other Willesden engines of the period such as Coronation class pacifics would also have had their battery boxes in that position but the boiler sheeting cutaway around their nameplates would have been visible in this angle.
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
A nice selection - I suspect that others will be able to cite details of the Staveley fleet off the tops of their heads, but I think the loco shown is a product of Markham and Co. - there weren't many of those altogether, and I'm not sure how many Staveley had....

"The name's Bond - G. Bond"

Seen below in unlined livery:

And a better lined livery shot:

Another possible contender might have been Lilly (and there may have been others with the same shaped tank), but the nameplate suggests 007.
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Stunningly good pictures of very mundane goods engines.

63774 Gorton 5/4/24, Doncaster 27/5/45, Gorton 25/6/45, Retford 8/7/45, Mexborough 27/8/50, Langwith Junc 3/9/61, Darnall 23/9/62,
Staveley 13/1/63, Wdn 10/3/63, Cut up Doncaster 8/10/63.

Although originally an ex Ministry of Munitions locomotive no 1868 built in Glasgow by the NBL works no in 1918 and therefore basically brand new at the end of the Great War and put into traffic by the LNER in 1924. Part 3 of the class was abolished in 1940 and thereafter all locos were effectively O4/1.

63701 Gorton 9/7/25, Doncaster 21/7/25, New England 11/1/26, March 1/3/29, Cambridge 25/10/31, March 16/3/42, Mexborough 28/10/51,
Staveley 11/2/62, Langwith Junc 13/6/65, Wdn 1/8/65, Sold to A.Draper Hull 9/65, Cut up 29/11/65.

This is another ex MoM O4/3 and not ex GCR. It was built by R.Stephenson works No 3728 in 1918.

63685 Gorton 22/5/24, Colwick 5/2/29, Langwith Junc 23/6/30, Colwick 19/9/44, Annesley 26/10/47, Colwick 9/5/48, Darnall 27/2/49,
Staveley 30/12/62, Wdn 31/3/64, Sold to T.W.Ward Killamarsh 6/64.

A further MoM loco 1667 built by R.Stephenson works no 3711 in 1918.

41739 Stourton 1/1/48, Staveley 10/54, Wdn 6/63.

42222 Shoeburyness 1/1/48, Tilbury 1/50, Neasden 4/54, Kirkby in Ashfield 11/61, Willesden 5/63, Wdn 5/65.

43845 Saltley 1/1/48, Toton 6/56, Wdn 7/63.


Yeadons for LNER engines info, Longworth for LMS engines.
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
Well I was always led to believe that the diagonal ran from bottom corner by the side door to the hinge line on the end door. It looks spot on to me…
cheers
Bob
Hello Bob,
To my eye, it should be a more acute angle. A sort of delineation between two equal areas. I mentioned it because it looked of to me. But miles and kilometres describe the same distance.


Cheers

Jan
 

Ian@StEnochs

Western Thunderer
If the shape of the tank on your Stavely industrial is anything to go by, it could be an Andrew Barclay industrial.
It is a Markham, not many built, Markham were mining machinery makers and the few locos they built were sidelines.
Barclay tanks had more rounded corners to the tank and were almost always flush riveted.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thank you for all the info about that Staveley engine, Adam @AJC , Arun, Tony @Osgood , Rob @Rob R, Ian @Ian@StEnochs and the various references to that nice Mr Bond. :) I never cease to be amazed at the knowledge within WT and the willingness to share it - what a resource! This with references will all be applied to the file about that photo.

The Jan @Lyndhurstman (twice), Bob @robertm and I'll include Tim @timbowales with his reference to the cranes - thanks for your comments about the wagonry and also the cranes, Tim.

Roger @Roger Pound - I like a good picture of an O4 as well and those in my view are first class.

Arun - I suspect you are correct about that battery box and the Britannia connection. Regrettably we don't know which one it is.

And Martin @Martin Shaw . As ever thank you for further and better particulars.

A couple of the following four photos were printed for Tim in his series "Shed Scenes"

Standard Class 2 2-6-0 78039 ahead of named Black 5 45156 Ayrshire Yeomanry at Willesden Shed in June 1963. 78039 was at Widnes from May 1956 and moved to Willesden in the four weeks ending 1st June 1963, Nuneaton in October 1965 and Shrewsbury in May 1966 where it was withdrawn in the following October (SLS) going to Cashmore’s, Newport, where it was scrapped in March 1967. (BR Database). The Black 5 was previously in post #2804.

45156 was allocated to Newton Heath in April 1957, thence to Bolton in December 1962, Warrington Dallam June and Edge Hill in July 1963. In 1968 it went to Patricroft in May and finally Rose Grove in July where it was withdrawn at the end of steam in August. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Sheffield, by the end of December 1968. (Rail UK).

img043 TM4 Film ID MSH 78039 & 45156 Willesden Jun 63. copyright FINAL.jpg

The named Black - see the description above - 45156 with an 8A (Edge Hill) shed plate, seen at the same time at Willesden. A rare visitor indeed.

img044 TM5 Film ID MSH 45156 Willesden Jun 63 Named Black 5 Shed Scenes. copyright FINAL. Rema...jpg

An unidentified Black 5 Jubilee with a 17B Burton on Trent shed plate at Willesden Shed in June 1963. The board on the smokebox, over the loco number reads “ Up The City”. I’ve researched any possible special train which may explain the presence of this loco and the smokebox name on Six Bells Junction but I can’t find a match.

img045 TM6 Film ID MSH Up The Cty 17B shed plate Willesden Jun 63. copyright FINAL.jpg

The amazing view which confronted visitors to Willesden Shed in June 1963. Identifiable are Black 5 45429, Ivatt 2MT 46472 and Standard Class 2 2-6-0 78039 but there’s a Britannia, Princess Coronation, various other Class 2 2-6-0s and at least one 2-6-4T in the shot as well. Of the three I can identify:

45429 was allocated to Crewe North in September 1961, Rugby in February 1963, Chester in July the same year where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1966 (BR Database) at Bird’s, Morriston, Swansea. (RO).

46472 was last in post #2367. It was shedded at Willesden from April 1960 and moved to Northwich in June 1963, then to it's final shed Newton Heath in August 1964. It was withdrawn in January 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Killamarsh, by the end of April 1965. (Rail UK).

78039 had been at Widnes since May 1956 but migrated to Willesden in June 1963, then Nuneaton in October 1965 and Shrewsbury in May 1966 where it was withdrawn in October the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport in March 1967.

img046 TM7 Film ID MSH 45429, 46472, 78039 Willesden Jun 63 View of 1A Shed Scenes copyright F...jpg

Brian
 
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