Buckjumper
Flying Squad
The South Side afternoon shift at Bishopsgate in the 1950s always had a QMBV shunted up to the buffers in the number 1 road for the goods to Ipswich...
7mm Buckjumper's Workbench - Latest: GCR D8 open wagons
- Thread starter Buckjumper
- Start date
-
- Tags
- pre-grouping scale 7
The South Side afternoon shift at Bishopsgate in the 1950s always had a QMBV shunted up to the buffers in the number 1 road for the goods to Ipswich...
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Thanks for that, very useful. Think I'll play it safe and do crimson...
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
One very tatty and careworn van was in Chatham Historic Dockyard a few years ago. What little paint remained on the bodywork showed successive overpainting from maroon, Southern Region green to BR blue. Whether it ever carried a colour before maroon we may never know. It was an exercise in neglect, and testament to the old adage that BR workshops simply painted over what went before, dirt and all.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Own up, Steph. It's not the only reason is it?
In fact I'd like to see one of your painted behicles - now which will it be?
Lol!!
Bob Reid
Western Thunderer
A popular myth I'm afraid Heather - they were not stripped back but the bodies were cleaned and prepped before successive repaints.... Though it may well have been the first time many had been cleaned since the last repaint!
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Heh! I realise that.
It was just enlightening to see close to thirty years of history revealed by a bit of flakey paint.
SR 4-wheel CCT by Snaptophobic, on Flickr
SR 4-wheel CCT by Snaptophobic, on Flickr
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Heather,
You didn't, by any chance, make a note of the number of the vehicle did you? It might be interesting (anorak-rustling again; sorry!) to try and match its condition to its history...
Steph
You didn't, by any chance, make a note of the number of the vehicle did you? It might be interesting (anorak-rustling again; sorry!) to try and match its condition to its history...
Steph
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Interesting if only because when a 3mm thick chip of paint taken from the iron 'Dual Brake' plate on a solebar of an ex-GE coach built in the 1890s and withdrawn in the 1920s was analysed by the forensic sciences department of the Metropolitan police in the 1980s, 26 layers were found, two of which were identified as layers of dirt. Perhaps the pre-Grouping period wasn't as squeaky clean as the rose-tinted bespectacled flat-earth society believes...
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Thanks for clarifying that Bob 
but yes, the GE stripped the varnish layers on the body right back to bare wood before revarnishing, and only repeated the process three times before declaring the wood was beyond its best, slapping golden brown paint on for the rest of its life (a minor aberration being crimson lake from 1919-1922).
Nevertheless you'd have thought they might have at least given the solebars and headstocks a cursory clean so the next layer of paint stood a chance! I suppose the W&C Dept. reckoned with a four - five year cycle the paint could cope!
but yes, the GE stripped the varnish layers on the body right back to bare wood before revarnishing, and only repeated the process three times before declaring the wood was beyond its best, slapping golden brown paint on for the rest of its life (a minor aberration being crimson lake from 1919-1922).Nevertheless you'd have thought they might have at least given the solebars and headstocks a cursory clean so the next layer of paint stood a chance! I suppose the W&C Dept. reckoned with a four - five year cycle the paint could cope!
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
JB, there was a Queen Mary on the GE, Romford coal yard in the late 1970s/early80s. I was told it was for it the braking power of the bogies to cold coal wagons on the steep slope. I've got a photograph or two of it stored safely somewhere in the house.
Tim
Tim
Overseer
Western Thunderer
And this is what heat and scrapers does to paint during the preparation process.
It isn't Southern but it was green. It is one of the samples from a Jones period Highland Railway carriage body in Inverness. The layers of paint and varnish have been scrambled and left in a corner, apparently during its repaint into LMS crimson as the brown undercoat has worked it way in between the earlier paint fragments. Fortunately other samples were taken of undisturbed paint layers. The olive green with varnish layers is Jones olive green, the blue green in the centre is probably Drummond green from after 1905.
I have the microscope and camera in the office if anyone wants a sample looked at. The samples don't need to be large. The full thickness of the paint layers is good. The sample above is only a few millimetres across.
It isn't Southern but it was green. It is one of the samples from a Jones period Highland Railway carriage body in Inverness. The layers of paint and varnish have been scrambled and left in a corner, apparently during its repaint into LMS crimson as the brown undercoat has worked it way in between the earlier paint fragments. Fortunately other samples were taken of undisturbed paint layers. The olive green with varnish layers is Jones olive green, the blue green in the centre is probably Drummond green from after 1905.
I have the microscope and camera in the office if anyone wants a sample looked at. The samples don't need to be large. The full thickness of the paint layers is good. The sample above is only a few millimetres across.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I am afraid I didn't.
I wasn't certain it even had a number, but a look at the shots on Flickr do show a number on the side I ignored. From what I can make out it had an S (duh!) and at least two 7s. I'll have to see if I can locate the original files, but don't expect too much. It was some time, a couple of backups and a crash or two ago.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Interesting if only because when a 3mm thick chip of paint taken from the iron 'Dual Brake' plate on a solebar of an ex-GE coach built in the 1890s and withdrawn in the 1920s was analysed by the forensic sciences department of the Metropolitan police in the 1980s, 26 layers were found, two of which were identified as layers of dirt. Perhaps the pre-Grouping period wasn't as squeaky clean as the rose-tinted bespectacled flat-earth society believes...
I'm hoping I'm not alone here but this kind of railway archeology facinates me. I was stupidly excited to see Dominion of Canada at Shildon during its cosmetic restoration. The original Brunswick green applied by BR found underneath the builders plate on the cab side and the LNER lettering uncovered in the cab for the cylinder tap control, fantastic. Should have nicked a bit for the SOCO lads to have a look at
Mick
Jon Fitness
Western Thunderer
I remember watching various layers of paint being investigated on City of Truro back in the early 1980 during it's initial overhaul on the SVR. The green and the indian red turned out to be very different than first envisaged by the paintshop team!
Of course, future paint archeologists may find puzzling traces of BR lined black on some little areas of the offside (snigger chortle etc...)
JF
Of course, future paint archeologists may find puzzling traces of BR lined black on some little areas of the offside (snigger chortle etc...
)JF
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Adrian
I have done 4 of these vans theya re nice kit to build and lasted in service until the early 1980s and went everywhere, there are even photos of them at Kyle of Lochalsh in BR days.
But as for colours I have never been able to find any evidence in the form of colour photos to show what colour they were before they were BR Blue. I can't find a maroon one or any green ones as the vans are always too dirty and virtually all the photos you can find are black and white.
There is a good little book Southern Railway Passenger Vans, I have a copy somewhere but even that comes to no firm conclusion on what colour they were inthe late forties to late 60s period.
Richard
I have done 4 of these vans theya re nice kit to build and lasted in service until the early 1980s and went everywhere, there are even photos of them at Kyle of Lochalsh in BR days.
But as for colours I have never been able to find any evidence in the form of colour photos to show what colour they were before they were BR Blue. I can't find a maroon one or any green ones as the vans are always too dirty and virtually all the photos you can find are black and white.
There is a good little book Southern Railway Passenger Vans, I have a copy somewhere but even that comes to no firm conclusion on what colour they were inthe late forties to late 60s period.
Richard
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Fraser - thanks for the photo of the Highland paint chip - fascinating stuff.
Thanks for your comments Tony & Mike.
Mick - if you'd like a copy of the forensic article I'll sort that out for you once I can access it again.
Jon - could you expand on your comment on the green and indian red please?
Richard - thanks for that. I have to say both yours and Steph's comments amaze me; I'm astonished that there seems to be so little hard evidence of the paint schemes for these vans during certain periods which are, in railway terms relatively recent. Perhaps I should retreat to my 1890s GER bunker where there seems to be a lot more information, and if anyone does argue the toss I just challenge them to prove it!
Thanks for your comments Tony & Mike.
Mick - if you'd like a copy of the forensic article I'll sort that out for you once I can access it again.
Jon - could you expand on your comment on the green and indian red please?
Richard - thanks for that. I have to say both yours and Steph's comments amaze me; I'm astonished that there seems to be so little hard evidence of the paint schemes for these vans during certain periods which are, in railway terms relatively recent. Perhaps I should retreat to my 1890s GER bunker where there seems to be a lot more information, and if anyone does argue the toss I just challenge them to prove it!