4mm Llanfair

[paulc]

I showed this photo to a group of seven friends all with various modelling interests, from vintage tinplate to fine scale.
Three of them said they preferred the right hand straight out of the box wagon, which dented my mojo a little.
Oh well, each to their own!View attachment 161546

Hi Mike , i looked at the two cement wagons and the one on the right is just way too clean . Then i studied the wagon on the left and decided it was too dirty . Logic tells me that these wagons would have been filthy considering what they carried but i would still prefer the L/H wagon to be a bit cleaner , but not too much cleaner .
Is it something to do with the colour yellow as i cannot weather my Saxa salt wagon apart from a light dusting although the rest of the salt wagons are dirty . We're peculiar creatures aren't we .

 

[Tim Hale]

I showed this photo to a group of seven friends all with various modelling interests, from vintage tinplate to fine scale.
Three of them said they preferred the right hand straight out of the box wagon, which dented my mojo a little.
Oh well, each to their own!

Mike,
Thanks for posting the image, I have a Ratio Ferrocrete van and your image provides the guidance needed.
Tim

 

[Phil O]

The dirty wagon does it for me.

 

[Focalplane]

I have two rakes of goods vehicles in the railway room, one out of the box, waiting to be weathered, the other all weathered except. I too prefer the weathered rake. My illustration of the Midlander with pristine loco still has the chassis of the brake 1st in a mucky state! Both Wolverhampton passenger sheds, Bushbury and Stafford Road, competed to keep their top link locos in good condition. This competition is mentioned in a biography of a Bushbury engineman, however, ignore the price, it can be found much cheaper.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Living not far from Crewe on the WCML, we did see ex-works locos occasionally, I might have a not very good Black and White snap taken from the site of the old Minshull Vernon Station, public access was still OK in those days not now of course. Loco in question was an LMR maroon City class loco, not at speed as it had just come out of the works and was only going slow. In all the years of my youth, I only managed one visit to the works, where they were building Brush class 4s (I believe they are now known as Duffs) but they were still working on steam loco overhauls and painting. I might have a couple of photos if of interest.

 

[Peter Cross]

Hi Mike , i looked at the two cement wagons and the one on the right is just way too clean . Then i studied the wagon on the left and decided it was too dirty . Logic tells me that these wagons would have been filthy considering what they carried but i would still prefer the L/H wagon to be a bit cleaner , but not too much cleaner .
Is it something to do with the colour yellow as i cannot weather my Saxa salt wagon apart from a light dusting although the rest of the salt wagons are dirty . We're peculiar creatures aren't we .

I also think it's rather too dirty, the cement would be in sacks. If they leaked that much powder the company would do something about it. I would imagine that under the doors you may get spillage, but the rest of the van would be more road dirt and soot.

 

[simond]

As the masters of modelling chide us relentlessly, don’t do what you think, follow photos of the real thing. Anyone got any?

 

[Overseer]

As the masters of modelling chide us relentlessly, don’t do what you think, follow photos of the real thing. Anyone got any?

'Industrial Railways of Southern England in Colour' has a photo of a pair of internal user wooden vans in the same blue circle livery that are far whiter than the iron mink model, and photos of the other internal user stock which is covered in white lime/cement/chalk. Mainline stock delivering cement probably wouldn't get so covered in white dust and probably would have more normal dirt and rusty water over the running gear.

 

[John Duffy]

I also think it's rather too dirty, the cement would be in sacks. If they leaked that much powder the company would do something about it. I would imagine that under the doors you may get spillage, but the rest of the van would be more road dirt and soot.

Being even more specific, I too feel it is too dirty, but in a specific way. It looks like it was been 'weathered' only by the cement. I suspect that the real thing got as dirty as many other wagons but not just from the load it was carrying. Perhaps more road dirt on the under frame and a lighter washing on the body.
One other factor to consider is that the company has gone to the trouble of using this van as an advert, they may well then have taken more care of it.

There are images here;

Harbury Cement Works: A Private Owner covered wagon belonging to Associated Portland Cement Manufacturers in 1948

Hatton Station: Ex-GWR 0-6-2T 56xx class No 6624 north of Hatton Junction with a cement train from the Harbury Cement works located at Greaves sidings on 9th May 1953

Five Ways Station: LMS Stanier 2-6-2T No 117 leaves Five Ways station with the 6.43 pm Birmingham to Redditch local passenger service

Stratford on Avon Station: Close up showing metal bodied covered van No 292 on the middle No 2 road of Stratfords goods yard

These tend to show fairly clean wagons with subtle weathering.

John

 

[LarryG]

Judging by the interest in weathering that my remark on post #325 created, I have asked the mods to move this discussion to my WB thread where I for one am happy to see it develop further. For anyone looking to weather their models, particularly cement wagons, numerous colour images of 'steam-era' cement wagons are to be found on flickr, pinterest and paulbartlet websites, to name but a few.

In the meantime, carry on posting here until this weathering subject is moved. As has been mentioned by some members, such wagons were not solely 'coloured' by the materials they carried. Rusty rail dust and lubrication oil also played its part and more so on fast moving traffic. Restored wagons traveling at 25mph would never weather in the same way as they did when BR used them. In fact, it is doubtful if any carry cement .

 

[simond]

I have a pristine one, awaiting the airbrush & powders…

 

[oldravendale]

Back in the '70s Mrs D and I were looking for our first home near Hemel Hempstead where the Kodak Head Office was to be sited. We spent a long time looking around the area and one of the places we went to was Pitstone which had a significant cement works associated with it - now long gone. The whole place was white with chalk or cement dust so I can quite believe that any wagons adjacent to a works would easily be covered thickly in cement dust which sticks for obvious reasons.

Frankly I don't think that wagon is overdone. Maybe you'd expect a bit more brown road dirt around the chassis but the body would have been white - really white.

Brian.

 

[LarryG]

Passenger parcels vans at Welshtown. The narrow bodied 8ft 6in wide LMS van is tucked in behind the GWR 9ft vans. The nearer K42 has not long been out of the paint shop...

 

[Dai88D]

I dont know if I am alone in thinking that weathered models look like models of the real thing while ex works models look like toys. Similarly, highly polished heritage steam has no chance of bringing back memories of the real days of steam for me. And so following yesterday's photo shoot of the '3-coach Inter corridor set', I weathered the other brake third. If nothing else, the coaches do at least match now...
View attachment 161250

PS: I like the idea of the 'inside out' brake. It mirrors the untidiness of BR.

I agree totally. For the life of me, I don’t understand why someone would buy a pristine 72xx when they they were filthy workhorses for practically all their life. Rant over.

 

[LarryG]

I was experimenting with the iPhone this morning in the gloom of the shed. The first photo was taken on the iPhone and shows the limited depth of focus for three-quarter views. The nearer Hornby coach is straight our of the box...



Below is a single shot image taken with an aperture of f32 for maximum depth of field. The lack of sharpness is usual with lenses when closing down apertures beyond the optimum sharpness (typically f8) ...


Below is a composite image where I focussed on the nearer coach (f32) and then took a second shot focussing on the rear coach. The two images were carefully married in Photoshop. It is vital that the camera remains locked in position for the two shots. It is also worth watching the exposure does not change. One should use manual exposure but I am lazy and simply reset the aperture if it changes...

 

[LarryG]

Further to the above, I took two pictures at f22 using a Canon Standard 50mm/f1.8 lens. Made in Japan, the optic of a prime lens would normally out-run a cheap China-built 18-35mm zoom. But 'marrying' the two images proved impossible because the sharp rear coach was smaller in proportions than the leading coach. I can only assume the optics in the 50mm lens zoom out ever so slightly when the focus is changed from the leading coach to the rear coach.

 

[Focalplane]

I have one lens that can do the job, the Nikkor 60mm “micro” f2.8. Just to be different Nikon called their macro lenses micro lenses. Sadly the 60mm lens becomes 90mm with a D sensor so normal angle shots are not possible.

 

[Heather Kay]

I can only assume the optics in the 50mm lens zoom out ever so slightly when the focus is changed from the leading coach to the rear coach.

I’ve found the same. I use a 35mm prime for most model shots, but when I've attempted focus stacking I discovered the internal optics move the image. I would need to arrange a method of shifting the whole camera rather than refocusing, which is technique used by the best ultra-macro photographers but beyond my interest and means at present.

 

[LarryG]

Glad I'm not the only one Heather. The cheap China 18-55 Mk.I (£99) does stacking admirably. But I have yet to try photographing at f8 to get optimum sharpness using 3-stack. Some of my triple-stack images are already on WT.

 

[Peter Cross]

Nice models Larry.
I must be old fashioned, I dislike photo stacking, to me it produces pictures that look unreal. No perception of depth. As I am here writing my phone is in focus, but I can see my feet and my son, but neither are as clear and sharp as my phone, and vise versa.