Building track the traditional way, P4 3 way pus a bit of 00 gauge

[Hayfield1]

A friend asked me to build a P4 3way turnout for him, its taken a few weeks for me to get going as I have not done any traditional track building for ages



Exactoscale timbers have been laid on the plan my friend supplied, I must admit some of the check rails are overly long, but that's what has been requested

The left hand V6 common crossing has been fabricated, and the center V5 has been part built

The right hand crossing is a V3.8, Templot has come to the rescue with a bespoke filing jig. The next part will be fun as there is little room for anything other than perfection

John

 

[3 LINK]

Hi John,
Without wanting to sound pedantic, that would be a tandem point, not a 3 way.

Martyn.

 

[Hayfield1]

Thanks Martin for the correction, but point? surely its a turnout

 

[Renovater]

Thanks Martin for the correction, but point? surely its a turnout

That could be a new thread, point or turnout ? Always been "points" for me even as a driver on BR back in the early eighties......Colin.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Officially it is turnouts the components being switches, crossings, closure and stock rails, but 'points' seems to of been a common term or slang for the units as a whole.

 

[Renovater]

Officially it is turnouts the components being switches, crossings, closure and stock rails, but 'points' seems to of been a common term or slang for the units as a whole.

I got the word "points" from my grandfather who got the word himself from being an apprentice in the Bristol tramways (1915) and from general railway speak of the period 1910>. It's funny once you're conditioned to a word, it sticks.....Colin

 

[James]

From a track engineering perspective it's a turnout but to the operators and signalmen they're points.

The rulebook specifically refers to "Points" so it's definitely not a slang term.



These days p-way staff will more likely refer to "switches and crossings" or simply just "S&C". Previously "points and crossings" was used.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

The old Railwaymen knew a thing or two. This from Inspector Aitken of the G&SWR published in 1913.

 

[martin_wynne]

Points are a valid term and refer to the moving switch blades. They are called points because they are pointed. Usually referred to in the plural as a "pair of points" or a "set of points". A turnout is not a "point", it consists of a set of points (also called a switch), plus a V-crossing, plus some closure rails linking in between them.

Railwaymen refer to "points" frequently, but they mean just the moving blades, not an entire turnout or slip. Likewise in a signal box the levers refer to points, because that is what the rodding is connected to.

Martin.

 

[James]

A turnout is not a "point"

Colloquially the two terms are interchangeable.

Local terms can confuse things too though; in some areas you'll hear Pandrol clips referred as "keys".

Railwaymen refer to "points" frequently, but they mean just the moving blades, not an entire turnout or slip. Likewise in a signal box the levers refer to points, because that is what the rodding is connected to.

Within the context of signalling "points" or "point work" refer to the entire unit - for example you're taught for mechanical signalling not to replace a signal to danger until the train is clear of any points the signal protects. Here "points" refers to the entire turnout/junction.

 

[Matt.S.]

I'm with you James. I'd assumed that points was a shortening of "point of switch" or "point of crossing.

Always tickles me knowing the day job doesn't have a straight answer no matter how much modellers want a straight answer.

For what it's worth out signals and track engineers would call that a three way - likely the crossings would be designed and supplied in one piece from supplier.

 

[martin_wynne]

Hi John,
Without wanting to sound pedantic, that would be a tandem point, not a 3 way.

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

It is a 3-way turnout -- it has 3 exits.

3-way turnouts are divided into two types:

3-throw turnouts have all the switch blades overlapping. Nowadays rare on UK trackwork, used only in sidings.​

​

Tandem turnouts have two separate staggered switches. Quite common on the prototype.​

Tandem turnouts are further divided into two types. Type 1 tandems have both switches in the main road. Type 2 tandems have the second switch in the turnout road of the first switch.

All 3-way turnouts can be double sided (switches of opposite hand) or single-sided (both switches are of the same hand, left or right):




a GER 3-throw switch

More info: 3-way tandem turnouts

Martin.

 

[Jim smith-wright]

3 throw at Lifford sidings

 

[Renovater]

In NG we always do our points better.....

 

[Jim smith-wright]

In NG we always do our points better.....

And with EM tolerances by the looks of it

 

[3 LINK]

Good morning Martin,

Looking at the original post, shows a tandem..

A friend asked me to build a P4 3way turnout for him, its taken a few weeks for me to get going as I have not done any traditional track building for ages

View attachment 243832




John

Hi Martyn,

It is a 3-way turnout

When I put up the post, I didn’t realise what a can of worms I had opened . I often refer to “crossings “ as either points or turnouts, and as we all seem to know what they do, does it really matter..

Regards, Martyn.

 

[James]

When I put up the post, I didn’t realise what a can of worms I had opened .

Railway terminology is really fascinating and often odd!

In the Hull area signallers call diesel shunters "Sugar Puffs"!

 

[Hayfield1]

Good morning Martin,

Looking at the original post, shows a tandem..





When I put up the post, I didn’t realise what a can of worms I had opened . I often refer to “crossings “ as either points or turnouts, and as we all seem to know what they do, does it really matter..

Regards, Martyn.

Martin

I enjoyed your post and treated it as a bit of fun

As you say, when the largest UK model track supplier uses the phrase "Points" rather than turnouts confusion will reign. The fact is until recently their products were described as 00/H0. Other than using the same gauge, 00 scale is a completely different scale than H0 so how can H0 be the same as 00?. Its no wonder folk get confused, then as said in life many people call the same thing by different names

In the end its a bit of fun that cheers up a miserable day, thanks for bringing a bit of friendly banter we all enjoyed

John

 

[simond]

00/H0.

Has been used for years, the old Airfix railway kits were all so marked, and I’d bet that TriAng used it too.

I'm sure in Peco’s case, they would say “suitable for either”. (and possibly wrong for both!)

I don’t know if it’s true but I heard that Peco track is made to suit the US market anyway as there’s a lot more buyers there than here…

 

[Hayfield1]

Has been used for years, the old Airfix railway kits were all so marked, and I’d bet that TriAng used it too.

I'm sure in Peco’s case, they would say “suitable for either”. (and possibly wrong for both!)

I don’t know if it’s true but I heard that Peco track is made to suit the US market anyway as there’s a lot more buyers there than here…

simond

I think it all goes back to the post war years of austerity, plus the old Streamline had a larger (or more lucrative ) market in Europe and the USA. With the demise of Wrenn. Formway and GEM there was no competition to force Peco's hand

Then of course one company DCC Concepts decided to enter the market and Peco reacted with not only 4mm scale track but bullhead to boot. As a result they found a complete new market, which coincided with Peco investing in new design and production technology.

Still they still have proper 00 gauge track in 4mm scale track. Dont they also have dedicated USA trackage system?

John