Jon Nazareth's G3 workbench

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Here are some pictures of my latest offering. This wagon was supposed to be the best modelled yet but it turned out far from being that well, in my eyes anyway. Going from the pictures it looks okay, I hope, but it was a struggle getting there.
All of my wagons have been made with plasticard and Evergreen strip except this one. The sizes of the timbers for the underframe were so large that I had to make them out of wood, beech to be precise.

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This is a typical jig/setup for making the under frame. I normally make a separate jig for each wagon but you can see that I've shortened this one for some reason. If making a wooden frame then I would use the little 'comma' clamps to hold all together while the wood glue sets. With styrene clamping is not such a problem and I find that I can hold the pieces in position by hand until the Mek Pak sets. With wooden frames I tend to use two clamps and you can just see a hole where the second clamp would have been positioned. This set up was not my idea but came from a chap in Oz.

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This picture shows the set up for painting with a single colour. A simple 'handle' screwed to the base which allows the wagon to be held in any position. To be able to let the whole thing dry off, the handle is clamped in the vice.

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There isn't any strength to a wooden or a styrene frame. This little idea takes care that forces aren't put directly onto the buffer beam as if they were, the beam would simply pull off. This was an idea picked up from a G3 member. I used to have awful problems with getting the 10BA nuts to start until I thought of the idea of turning down a short length of the rod. The nut can be slipped over the end and turned until it catches without the palaver of trying to old it in place with one hand while trying to turn the nut with the other. You can also see that I'm not too fussed with the appearance of the underside of my models.


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This was quite a large wagon with 4' 3" wheels. I though that my Open A was big but, this one is bigger.
The nuts that hold the W irons are 16BA opened out to take 14BA cheese head screws. They are cheaper than bolts and they don't get to be seen. All of the other nuts, and they number in the hundreds, just, are 16BA opened out to take a 1/32" rivet. To my eye they look just like a coach bolt. The whole thing was scratch built including axle boxes. Parts not were the buffer bases, the draw hooks, the brake rack, the little safety hooks and the brake lever which were supplied by Mike Williams. He also managed to sort out the W irons from a cad drawing that I sent to him. The wheels came from Mark Wood which were machined by myself.

I have one more wagon to build in the form of a carriage truck and am awaiting the spring hangers as we speak. After that, I'll be working on my version of Lion. It won't be exactly like the original, I say that before I even start, so a new name will have to be thought up.

I hope that some of you may find the above of interest and maybe even some of you will be tempted to try G3.

Jon
 

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Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Personally, working in anything larger than 7mm scale doesn't interest me. That doesn't, however, prevent me from enjoying models made to larger scales. Please do carry on posting about your builds, Jon.
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Thanks, Jamie.

The little hooks are from Mike Williams, the chain links I make up myself using a simple jig which is illustrated a few posts back and the eyebolts are 8BA brass cheese head machine screws. The heads are reduced in length slightly and a ring soldered into the remaining slot. Sometimes blacking has an effect on the solder but, I believe, I painted the ones on this wagon.

Jon
 

John Miller

Western Thunderer
.......... I hope that some of you may find the above of interest and maybe even some of you will be tempted to try G3.

Jon

Unfortunately, restraints on time and resources make it unlikely that I will ever venture into G3.

However, as a consequence of my involvement in G1 and 16mm, I do find much of interest in your posts - long may they continue! .... :thumbs:
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
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I was in two minds as to whether I should load these pictures but I think the quality is just good enough to see what is going on.
This is a drawing of the bridge that I intend to have a go at building. It is drawn full size @ 1m long and 260mm high. If I put in a single piece/brace across the top, I will still have room to drive my version of Lion through it. All of the strength will be in the deck and the two sides are there just for the aesthetics. The whole thing would have been much easier to draw if it didn't have a curved top but, for me at least, wouldn't have looked so pleasing. Most of the plates are different in size and shape and are almost all drawn freehand, I'm dreading having to re draw and then cut them out. There are a minimum amount of rivets/bolts per plate as they are there to give the look of riveted plates as well as hold the pieces together. I estimate some three hundred rivets which will all need threading 7BA and I shall definitely be making one of PAKPAUL'S jigs to help me along with the task. The bridge will be made from aluminium extrusions with aluminium strengthening plates. If I can't make the curve from 3/8" x 3/8" angle then the bridge may end up with square sides :( . I was going to cut through one of the edges of the angle at the node points to aid bending but I'm not sure that I am going to like the thrupenny bit look. I'll have a go at bending freehand first and if that doesn't work then It's out with the saw. I've drawn it out on a piece of 18mm ply because not only was it the only thing I could find that was big enough but also because I can bang pins into it should the need arise and it may very well do if I need to bend that angle. None of the cuts for the sections where they meet an upright are true angles as they all change as you move along the curve. These will all need to be cut by hand and then filed to fit making another job I'm not looking forward to :(. But, I'm sure that it will look very good, if it all comes off.

Jon
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Jamie

I thought that with threaded rivets, I could carry out trial runs and take down and assemble as many times as needed. Although, I could still have done this with bolts and rivet when all was okay. It's too late now as rivets and nuts have arrived in the post but now I'm thinking 7BA is a little too large. I went for 3/32" rivets as these could be threaded without any turning. However, I've now realised that I could have gone down the metric road although I didn't do a size comparison re metric rivets et al.

Jon
 

pakpaul

Western Thunderer
Jon

This was written just before you posted the response to Jamie

Jamie has beaten me to the comment about using the rivets as well ... "rivets". Presume that you are talking of 3/32" rivets as you mention 7BA, and if that is the case there is a very simple tool which was described many years ago in Model Engineer, which can be made from castings, or plate, which makes using small rivets very easy, and makes a very neat job.

If you are interested I can take a photo tomorrow (I have to reassemble it as I have used part of it as a press tool for another job), also it is winter here and a lot colder in my shed than in my lounge, and I am watching the cricket. I will also try to find the original article.

Paul
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Paul

You've just jogged my memory there as I made a similar riveting tool myself some years ago only, I forgot that I had :)). This memory thing gets to us all, eventually. If I go down the riveting road, what do I do with 300 brass rivets and nuts? I'll have to think about this one.

Jon
 

pakpaul

Western Thunderer
Jon

If the basic structure is aluminium, you could probably get away with making a modified anvil with a slightly smaller head on the brass rivet, where the head is visible, without a compromise on strength, and so use the rivets. Not so sure about the nuts!

Paul
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Paul

Not sure that I follow you there. But..............

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...is this the tool? I could use a rivet with a smaller head too.

Jon
 

pakpaul

Western Thunderer
Jon

Yes that is the tool, there are also two other castings available which provide a larger throat if needed.

What I meant was that instead of using a standard rivet anvil hole diameter of 0.164" to make the head, to use a smaller one of say .130" or so making it look as if a smaller rivet was used, still using the normal anvil on the preformed rivet head.

Paul
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Paul

I've just had a rummage in the shed and found more than enough 1/16" copper rivets to do the job. Mmmm, wonder what else is squirreled away out there...

Jon
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
I would try anything other than threading all those rivets, but that's what a very low boredom threshold does unfortunately. I haven't used one of those riveting tools, and can see they can be easy to use if solo, but I have learnt to actually enjoy riveting using snaps. It's quick and simple, especially with 1/16 or 3/32 rivets.
For what it's worth, I use two domed snaps, easily purchased, and two home made snaps.
I assemble the thing first with a few temporary nuts and bolts then with one snap facing upward in a vice, start riveting. Each rivet in turn is pushed through its hole and held with head in the snap. (This formed head to be on the most visible face).
Cut the tail to length with pincers (something like 1.5 x dia. protruding). A home made flat bottomed snap (say 1/4 in. dia and drilled through a clearance size), is fitted over the rivet (resting on the structure and not in contact with rivet) and tapped to push plates up tight against each other and rivet head. Next, a tap on the rivet itself with a flat bottomed snap (again a piece of 1/4 in. dia is good), to expand the rivet and then finally a proper snap to form a domed head.
Three steps and three taps per rivet.
It does help to have three hands, but can be done solo with a little dexterity.
It definitely helps to get the right sized drill, using a bit of trial and error from a pack of nominal correct size, so the rivets go through with a very light push and a tendency to stay in place.
Also experiment with depth of doming on the snaps, modifying the ends if necessary- too deep and the rivets tend not to bottom properly, too shallow and the rivet head gets damaged.
Snaps may need to be relieved as the job progresses to prevent fouling against adjacent rivets etc.
It's important to make sure there is no looseness in the riveting- structural plates are in good contact with each other and rivet is well expanded with no shake.
Anyway, there must be many other ways to do the job.
Jamie
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Jamie

Thank you for that and I'll bear it all in mind. The bridge is quite big and not sure if I'll be able balance such a structure on top of a snap. At this stage, I'm keeping my options open and as I said above, if the arch proves too problematical, the bridge will end up with a flat top. This goes for the methods of construction too.

Jon
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
IMG_0362.JPG I've decided to scrap my first bridge design and start again. Today I re drew it but this time with a flat top and I made all of the angles 60/30 degrees which will be much easier to cut, I think. Well, they will once I've decided on a set up. The two photos show a) one end of the new design, I didn't think it worth showing the whole thing and b) the corner reinforcing plates with one in it's proper position. I'm making the plates in brass as the ali sheet that I had was a little too thick. I've ordered more ali extrusions for the new design as the original now won't do, gonna be an expensive bridge.

Jon

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