Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Barry37]

Not a SEALION as they weren't introduced until 1970. The LSWR introduced bogie ballast hopper, with BR building just 50, named as WALRUS. I am doubtful a bogie wagon would have been used by the LMR. The variety of hoppers is interesting, as mentioned each delivers the ballast in different ways, with the MERMAID seen in the second photo being side tipping into the 6ft.

Paul

As an aside, some of the LSWR hoppers ended their days as Internal Users at Newhaven (around 1960, I suspect that this was taking metalwork from the carriage-scrapping area to the nearby North Quay for transport by sea. Unfortunately, their presence seems to have escaped the attention of photographers.

 

[oldravendale]

All this additional material about the ballast wagons and train is fascinating. Please keep it coming, Barry @Barry37 , Dan @Dan Randall , Paul @Cransford and Paul @hrmspaul .

Also, Barry @Barry37 again I must admit to wondering whether there was anything notable about the vehicle behind the Patriot so thanks for picking that up.

Your comment about "in the wink of an eye" is appreciated, Gary @cmax .

As ever, Martin @Martin Shaw thank you for your suggestion about the identity of that Britannia. Yes, Iron Duke seems likely and was one of the Brits I saw myself at Willesden in those far off days.

Thanks for yours, Arun @Arun Sharma . You are, of course, absolutely correct. I should have clarified which Watford I meant. And the extra info from Dave @Yorkshire Dave explains the background to the Bakerloo trains now terminating at Harrow.

Britannia 70050 Firth of Clyde, last seen in post #3771 passing through South Kenton in May 1963. It had been allocated to Polmadie in August 1954 and the SLS record shows that the loco was seen in Crewe Works Sidings on 7th May 1961. It went to Corkerhill in April 1962, Crewe North in November and Holyhead in December the same year, back to Crewe North in January 1963, Crewe South in June and Banbury in October 1965 and finally Carlisle Kingmoor in January 1966 where it was withdrawn in the following August. (SLS). It was scrapped at Campbell’s, Airdrie in October 1966. (BR Database).



Three photos of A3 60065 Knight of Thistle on suburban stock at Kings Cross in May 1963, the last showing the train leaving, still on suburban stock so one can only assume that at this time even A3s had been relegated to menial tasks (or perhaps the DMUs were failing and the A3 was a scratch replacement with no other suitable motive power available. Certainly the tender is full of what appears to be very small and poor coal). This loco has appeared in this thread many times, for example posts #1429, #1566, #1763, #3521 and #5032. It was fitted with German style deflectors which it had carried since November 1961. It became a New England engine from June 1962 from where it was withdrawn in June 1964 going to A Kings and Sons of Norwich where it was scrapped in August the same year. (SLS & RailUK).

Note the Brush Type 2 in a couple of the shots and a mail bag in both the first and last photos conveniently positioned as a tripping hazard.







A4 60017 Silver Fox, previously in post #4223 and here at Kings Cross with Deltic D9020 alongside the adjacent platform possibly in 1963. It was a resident of Kings Cross from December 1935, moving to New England in June 1963 and being withdrawn in October. (SLS). It went to Doncaster Works for disposal which was completed by the year end. (BR Database). D9020 Nimbus was allocated to Finsbury Park when new on 12th February 1962 and was withdrawn on 6th January 1980. It became 55020 on 10th November 1973 and was scrapped at Doncaster Works on 2nd February 1980. (BR Database).

I had four goes at printing this for Tim before he was satisfied with the results!



Brian

 

[gateman 49]

Super picture of the locomen, in fact super doesn't do it justice. Perfect composition and timing.
Tony

Re 7031 on page 269:

Yes, I agree and both of the crew have collar and tie and look happy but what working conditions! Not much protection in a Collett cab and no doors between loco and tender with a pep pipe as a trip hazard.

 

[oldravendale]

Yes, @gateman 49 , but that was typical of loco crews in the late '50s, very early '60s and earlier. You have to remember that to be an engine driver was the dream of many boys and loco drivers were an elite. There are plenty of trip hazards in a loco cab!

Britannia 70039 Sir Christopher Wren at Kings Cross with Deltic D9018 in the background at some time around 1963. Seen previously in posts #2017, #4126 and #4595 and #4611 the Britannia lived at Norwich Thorpe from February 1959, then Immingham from the end of 1960 and in December 1963 went to Carlisle Upperby ending up at Carlisle Kingmoor in March 1964 where it was withdrawn in September 1967 (SLS) although later it advises withdrawal was from York North. It then went to J Mc Williams at Shettleston where it was scrapped by the end of January 1968. (BR Database). D9018 Ballymoss was allocated to Finsbury Park when new on 24th November 1961 and withdrawn on 13th October 1981. (BR Database). The locos TOPS number was 55018 from 9th February 1974. The loco was cut up at Doncaster Works in January 1982. (SLS).



Britannia 70038 Robin Hood at Kings Cross at some time around 1963. Seen previously in posts #2554, #4091 and #4752 70038 was a Norwich Thorpe engine from February 1959 then March in November 1960, Immingham from November 1961, moving to Carlisle Upperby in December 1963 and then Kingmoor in February 1964 where it was withdrawn in August 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at J McWilliams at Shettleston in December the same year. (BR Database).



Two here of Royal Scot 46111 Royal Fusilier at Willesden MPD at some time around 1963. We saw this loco quite recently, in posts #3471 and #3591 and before that in #1752. It was allocated to Willesden in July 1961 and was one of that sorry number moving to Annesley in February 1963. It was withdrawn in September (SLS) and then went to Crewe (WHTS) where it was scrapped in November 1963. (BR Database). It was observed within the works in October. (WHTS).





Jubilee 45622 Nyasaland at Willesden around1963 - plenty of trip hazards in evidence. In August 1961 the loco was allocated to Kentish Town, moved to Burton in March 1963 and Derby in July 1964 where it was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped in the following December. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Arun Sharma]

The tender in front of 46111 looks like a lined out Fowler 3500 one. Assuming that it isn't Nyasaland's tender then it could well be from one of Willesden's high numbered Jubilees - there were a couple 45701 and 45704 that I regularly saw at Willesden that had these tenders.

 

[Dave Holt]

45701 was a Manchester Newton Heath (26A) loco for its whole life. It had a Standard 3500 gallon (Fowler) tender from new but acquired a Stanier 4000 gallon version by the end of 1959.
Dave.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the thoughts about the Royal Scot tender, Arun @Arun Sharma and further info Dave @Dave Holt .

Stanier 3P 2-6-2T 40157 was previously in post #1736 and here is on empty stock at Euston on 13th February 1962. This had been a Willesden engine since August 1961 and it was withdrawn from there at the beginning of December 1962. (SLS). It was disposed of at Derby Works in April 1963 (BR Database) and was seen there on 11th April (SLS).



Stanier Class 4P 2-6-4T 42585 on the 5.50 Euston to Watford train at South Kenton on 13th April 1962. 42585 was allocated to Willesden in February 1959, Bangor in August and back to Willesden in September 1961 where it was withdrawn at the end of November 1962. (SLS). Coincidentally the route to disposal followed that of the Stanier 2-6-2T above being reported as scrapped during April 1963 (BR Database) and seen scrapped alongside 40157 at Derby Works on 11th April 1963. (SLS).



An unidentified Princess Coronation on an up train from Liverpool at South Kenton on 13th April 1962. The corner of the Grade 2 listed Windermere pub is just visible on the extreme right of the frame.



Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75030, previously in post #3764 here on the 6.15 Euston to Bletchley train at South Kenton on 13th April 1962. The loco had been allocated to Willesden since the end of January 1960. It then went to Nuneaton in February 1963, Stoke in October the same year and finally Tebay in June 1967 where it was withdrawn at the end of the year. (SLS). It then went to Arnot Young, Carmyle where it was scrapped in July 1968. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

The tender in front of 46111 looks like a lined out Fowler 3500 one. Assuming that it isn't Nyasaland's tender then it could well be from one of Willesden's high numbered Jubilees - there were a couple 45701 and 45704 that I regularly saw at Willesden that had these tenders.

It isn't from 45622 Nyasaland which had the one Stanier 3500 gallon type tender (no 4605) all its life. The tender in front of 46111 if having little to aid identification does have a distinctive line of snap head rivets. There appear to have been twelve Jubilees withdrawn whilst towing Fowler 3500 gallon tenders and of these ten had flush rivetting which leaves 45704 and 45716. The latter was at Agecroft and Newton Heath during 1963 whilst 5704 was either at Rugby or Crewe North engine and perhaps more likely to appear at Willesden shed. I think on this basis I am reasonably happy to say that the tender in front of the Royal Scot is attached to 45704 reinforcing Arun's personal memory.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

I think that's what's called "granular detail", Martin @Martin Shaw and further grist to the mill.

Black 5 45065 on the 6.32 Euston to Tring and Bletchley train at South Kenton on 13th April 1962. The smokebox door suggests it's been bulled-up for something special. The loco was allocated to Aston in November 1959, then Rugby at the beginning of March and Northampton at the end of the month, Willesden in July and Tyseley in September 1963, Crewe South in October and Rugby in December 1964, then Nuneaton in June 1965 and Heaton Mersey in June 1966 where it was withdrawn in April 1968. (SLS). It was scrapped in September 1968 (BR Database) at Wards, Beighton, Sheffield. (RO).



Stanier 2-6-4T 42604 at South Kenton on 13th April 1962. The loco had been allocated to Willesden since October 1958, moving to Bushbury in June 1963 and finally Aston in May 1965 where it was immediately withdrawn. (SLS). It was scrapped in September 1965 at Cashmore's, Great Bridge. (BR Database). Previously this loco was in post #3768.



Previously in post #3586 was Princess Coronation 46221 Queen Elizabeth here at South Kenton on 26th April 1962. The loco was allocated to Carlisle Upperby in February/March 1961, then Carlisle Kingmoor in March/April and finally back to Upperby in April/May 1962 where it was withdrawn in May 1963. (SLS). The Railway Observer reported it in C Shop at Crewe Works on 22nd June 1963 after a failure at Camden. It was scrapped in July 1963 (BR Database) and it’s reasonable to assume that the deed was carried out at Crewe. A nice period train indicator board in the second picture.





Brian

 

[76043]

Interesting to see a black five on non-corridor stock and 2-6-4T on a train of corridor stock, both on different lines, which I assume are fast and slow.
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Exactly as you surmise, Tony @76043 . The Black 5 is on the slow down line and the tank on the fast down line. The Black 5s were by no means unusual on the Bletchley locals although the possible reason for a Stanier tank and corridor stock on the fast lines eludes me. Both are carrying the stopping passenger lamp code. Potentially the Black 5 would stop at Harrow and the tank first stop could be Watford but that still fails to explain the corridor stock.

A pair of lovely period photos photos of two Princess Coronations, 46229 Duchess of Hamilton and 46240 City of Coventry having arrived at Euston on 26th April 1962. Note the queue of cabs on the concourse, the trollies on the platforms, and the fashions. We've seen Duchess of Hamilton many times previously – as an example see #2645 - so it's sufficient to refer to 46229 Duchess of Hamilton (LMS 6229, LMS 6220 & BR 46229) City of Coventry was in posts #4171 and #4939. It had been a Camden engine since at least 1948 (BR Database) but moved to Willesden in September 1963 and finally Crewe North in September 1964 where it was withdrawn only a week after arrival. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in December. (BR Database).





Fowler 4P 2-6-4T 42351 on a Bletchley local train as it leaves Euston on 26th April 1962. The loco had been at Willesden MPD from February/March 1962 and moved to Birkenhead Mollington Street in the following June where it was withdrawn during week ending 25th August in the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge on 11th March 1963. (BR Database).



An unidentified Princess Coronation with headboard for an unidentified named train on 26th April 1962. I believe this photo to be at Kensal Green. Note the Sulzer Type 2 diesel with yellow warning panel on the slow line.

Edit: This is Kilburn High Road, not Kensal Green



Brian

 

[46240]

Good afternoon Brian,

Lovely to see City of Coventry again looking in the fettle at Euston, thanks for sharing these photos.

Cheers, Nigel.

 

[Arun Sharma]

The unidentified Princess Coronation is interesting - firstly it is a de-streamlined engine and secondly, it has a crest above the nameplate. Coronation, City of Birmingham and City of Coventry spring to mind immediately as does City of Stoke on Trent. Possibly, the nameplate is too long for "Coronation"? Knowing whether the engine was red or green would greatly assist in identifying.......

 

[Genghis]

Is that tender riveted? If so would that make it Stoke on Trent?

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

An unidentified Princess Coronation with headboard for an unidentified named train on 26th April 1962. I believe this photo to be at Kensal Green. Note the Sulzer Type 2 diesel with yellow warning panel on the slow line.

It's Kilburn High Road station. Kensal Green does not have a road bridge at the 'south' end of the platform. 'South' used loosely here to denote the 'London' end as the station is almost on a east-west alignment.

 

[oldravendale]

More thanks to a number of faithful contributors... Yes, "Coventry" was a fine engine, Nigel @46240 . Then Arun and Dave @Arun Sharma and @Genghis . I believe that City of Stoke on Trent is quite a likely candidate. We've seen it previously in the London environs and it was quite a common engine in the day. I reckon that's a pretty good bet. Then, as ever, Dave @Yorkshire Dave . Establishment of the location is very helpful.

Royal Scot 46138 The London Irish Rifleman leaving Euston on a Birmingham train on 26th April 1962. This was a Holyhead engine from March 1961 transferred to Carlisle Upperby in December 1962 and withdrawn from there in March 1963. (SLS). This loco went to Crewe Works for disposal which was completed on 9th May 1963. (RO). The remains of the loco were seen there on 12th May 1963. (RO). The loco has been seen previously in post #1736. I printed this photo for Tim who then asked if I could remove the pipework apparently coming out of the chimney so I did and he was happy with the second iteration although he always remained a little at conflict with himself in having compromised accuracy for the sake of his art. I don't have that issue as I can leave any decision up to you! The first of these photos is the original version and the second has this “pipework” painted out.





From posts #2389 and #4215 is A1 Class 60117, Bois Roussel here at Kings Cross heading the 6.12 Leeds train on 1st May 1962. The loco was at Copley Hill, Leeds from February 1953, moving to Ardsley in September 1964 and then Gateshead in December 1964 before returning to Ardsley in January 1965 where it was withdrawn in the following June. It was sold to Clayton & Davie, Dunston on Tyne, in August 1965. (All BR Database). It was seen there in November the same year (RO). The last of this group of photos shows an “improved” version with a part of the photo painted out and this image also shows a Type 2 diesel and a (possibly) N2 0-6-2T in the background.











Brian

 

[oldravendale]

A3 60107 Royal Lancer at Kings Cross on 1st May 1962. It was previously seen in posts #2013, #2028 and #4127. It was at Kings Cross Shed from October 1960, thence to Grantham in June 1963 from where it was withdrawn at the beginning of September the same year. (SLS). It was disposed of at Doncaster Works the following month. (BR Database).



Shown earlier in post #2597 and on the same train is King 6026 King John on the up Cambrian Coast Express at Saunderton on 14th April 1962. King John was an Old Oak Common engine withdrawn in September 1962, (SLS) thence to Swindon Works where it was scrapped by the end of 1963. (BR Database). The loco was also seen previously in post #1810.



Previously in Post #2609 is King 6021 King Richard II here on an up Birkenhead train at Saunderton on 14th April 1962. It was an Old Oak Common engine from September/October 1959 and withdrawn at the end of September 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, around November the same year. (BR Database).



King Class 6013 King Henry VIII on an up Wolverhampton train at Saunderton on 14th April 1962. Home shed was Old Oak Common where it had been allocated since March 1960, moving to Stafford Road in May 1961 where it was withdrawn at the end of June 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon Works at the end of the same year. (BR Database). The loco was previously in Post #2823.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

61XX 2-6-2T 6117 at Saunderton on a Paddington to Aylesbury train on 14th April 1962. At the time of the photo it was a Slough engine where it had been allocated since July/August 1958. It moved to Southall in February 1964 where it was stored in July and withdrawn on 10th September 1965. (SLS). The loco was seen on 4th November 1965 at Bird’s, Bridgend (WHTS) and was disposed of in December 1965 (BR Database).



Two photos of V2 60967 at Beaconsfield on a special taken from a DMU window on 14th April 1962. The first is the original and the second has the reflections painted out. The V2 was a York North engine from September 1961 where it was withdrawn in February 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped on 19th February 1964 at Darlington Works. (BR Database).





An unidentified Merchant Navy heads the train on which Tim was travelling on 8th June 1962, and I believe this is at Poole. Of note is that the train is at least 11 coaches in length and quite possibly more – those MNs had prodigious hauling power. A personal memory as a child was being on a Waterloo to Bournemouth train with my parents and sister to visit an aunt at New Milton and the train (hauled by Bibby Line) stopping with us at the end of the train and no platform, and then the train pulling forward to allow passengers to alight from the back of the train.



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

Re #985, it is Poole but more specifically Holes Bay Junction. There was a signalbox here until 1934 after which the junction was worked by Poole West, later renamed Poole B. The train is on the line to Hamworthy Junction and is passing the down main advanced starting signal, the signal in the background is the up main home signal with the up main to goods reception 1 and 2 lines signals.

The most likely destination is Weymouth that had moved from the WR to the SR in 1958, although whilst Swanage is a possibility eleven or more coaches would be difficult to deal with there. I have found a pic of 35014 Nederland Line at Weymouth in 1966 at the head of a 4 coach train from Bournemouth, but light pacifics appear rather more often unsurprisingly.

Martin

 

[oldravendale]

That is brilliant info, Martin @Martin Shaw . You will see from the following photos that a trip to Swanage was included in the itinerary and one of the shots shows a pacific which I believe to be an MN at the head of the train on the line adjacent to the M7 although I'm very willing to have the identity of the loco challenged.

Saying which we are now on the very last knockings of Tim's B & W photos. The whole collection will almost certainly be completed before Christmas at which time I'll take a few days to complete all the information updates attached to the photos before commencing the colour collection. There'll be nothing earth shattering in these final few photos but variety continues to the very end.

Four photos here of M7 0-4-4T 30057 at Swanage on 8th June 1962 and in the first photo a putative Merchant Navy can be seen at the head of the main line train. The final photo in this set is from the train and near Corfe with the M7 apparently not doing badly with a six coach (at least) train. The loco was on the Bournemouth allocation and had been from April/May 1956 and was withdrawn in June 1963. (SLS). Disposal was at Eastleigh Works where it was cut up on 27th July 1963. (RO). BR Database agrees with the month of disposal. The water tower with a pitched roof, water crane and platform lighting are interesting and potentially useful modelling references.

Edit: Now known to be Wareham and not Swanage.









An unidentified Q Class 0-6-0 on the Swanage Branch on 8th June 1962.



S15 30511 viewed from the carriage window at, it’s believed, Winchfield on 8th June 1962. The loco had been allocated to Feltham for a long time – since at least January 1948 – and was withdrawn week ending 7th July 1963. (SLS). It was cut up at Eastleigh Works on 11th January 1964 (RO) and BR Database agrees with the month of disposal.



Schools Class 30936 Cranleigh which we saw previously in posts #2627, #3198 and #4349 here on an up Basingstoke train at Winchfield on 8th June 1962. It was at Bricklayers Arms from June 1935, Ashford in June 1959 and Nine Elms in November 1961 where it was withdrawn in December 1962 and stored until July 1963. It was then stored at Eastleigh Works from August until September 1963 and cut up at Eastleigh Works in November 1963. (Irwell Book of).



Brian