Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Today a County-fest.

Two pictures here at Old Oak Common Shed in May 1963 and County 1011, County of Chester stands by the coaler. At the time it was a St Phillips Marsh engine which the shed plate 82B confirms. In November 1963 it moved to Swindon from where it was withdrawn in early November 1964. It was scrapped in March 1965 at Cashmores, Newport.





Still at Old Oak at some time in 1963 and another pair of photos of the same loco. In the first an unknown Castle leads County 1012, County of Denbigh outside the shed building. 1012 had been a Swindon engine since 1956 confirmed by the 82C shed plate and it was withdrawn from there at the end of April 1964. It, too, went to Cashmore's, Newport where it was broken up in December the same year.



Here's a portrait of 1012, same time, same place.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Still at Old Oak and some more Counties to come, but in the meantime:

First Tim's original portrait format of Modified Hall 6973, Bricklehampton Hall, in 1963 followed by my remask to landscape. The shed plate appears to have recently been removed and not replaced with a new one. It was an Old Oak engine from the end of December 1959 until it moved to Cardiff East Dock in May 1963. I wonder if the missing shed plate suggests it's about to leave OOC for pastures new? After Cardiff it went to Neath, Severn Tunnel Junction and Bristol Barrow Road from where it was withdrawn at the end of August 1965. It went to Cashmore's Newport where it was broken up in November the same year.





Here's County 1006, County of Cornwall, backing in to Old Oak Common shed in 1963. It was a Swindon engine from the end of 1962 from where it was withdrawn in September 1963. It went to Coopers Metals, California Sidings Sharpness where it was disposed of in June 1964.



Finally 1012, County of Denbigh. Details can be seen in post # 1181 above.



Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Tim.
Great to see further posts of Tim's photos. Thank you.
With the short double chimney, Counties definitely had a squat, powerful look about them. Purposeful, one might say.
Dave.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Since Brian posted a picture last Sunday of a very ordinary run of the mill transfer goods from the SR to the LMR, I have been pondering in idle moments the possible identity of the locomotive. I agree with Dave, it is an N class of which there were 80 at one time. Eight (1407-1414) were built with LHD of which two (1409, 1414) were withdrawn by the end of 62, which only gives us the other 72 to choose from. There are other clues, the anonymous loco doesn't appear to have the frame renewals, it has a BR chimney, a tad taller and somewhat thinner than the original or Maunsell versions, a 4000 gallon tender, identifiable by the rise in the footplate and valance at the leading end, and AWS fitted. The 4000 gal tender was only initially fitted to the 1400-1414 batch and some of those are already discounted which leaves the seven 1400-1406, and of those 00, 05, and 06 had frame conversions. Of the remaining 01, 03, 04 retained Maunsell chimneys which leaves 31402 as the most likely contender and was usefully shedded at Brighton at that time. A very few of the locos originally with straight sided 3500 gal tenders later had the 4000 gal variety but identifying them is a laborious job I don't feel up to.
It is of course entirely likely I have misread the evidence so if you disagree with my thoughts please pipe up.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Wow, Martin. That's an incredible bit of research. I'm very happy to accept 31402 as a likely candidate - unless someone knows differently.

To start today here is 57XX No 7715 inside Old Oak Common Shed in 1963. In all my visits to Old Oak I never saw one of this series of pannier tanks at Old Oak but Tim seemed to be skilled at photographing the unusual. However, here's a hypothesis. 7715 was withdrawn from Duffryn Yard where it had lived since January 1962 in mid-May 1963. It then had a second life at London Transport's Neasden Depot and apparently arrived there in June 1963. I suspect it would have been repainted by LT and therefore it's likely that the date of this photo is late May or June 1963 as the loco makes its way to LT.



A couple more lineside shots.

First is 7006, Lydford Castle, from the lineside at Old Oak in April 1963. Since March 1962 it had been an Old Oak loco, being withdrawn from there in mid December 1963. It went to Bird's, Risca where it was scrapped in August 1964.

The first shot is Tim's original framing and the second is my revision.



Finally for today, and specially for Simon T is 94XX 0-6-0PT 9405 on empty stock at Old Oak in April 1963. It had been at Old Oak since 1959. In July 1964 it went to Reading, then back to Old Oak in August the same year finally going to Bristol Barrow Road in March 1965 from where it was withdrawn the following June. Disposal was by the services of T W Ward at Briton Ferry by the end of October 1965.



Brian

 

[SimonT]

There's lovelly Boy!

 

[oldravendale]

Apologies for lack of post yesterday. I was fishing on a boat out of Brighton. Due to persistent sea mist it was miserable and wet and all I caught was a cold. I could have bought a fishmonger's contents for the cost of the trip - and I was out of the hose at 3.45 am to get down there on time. A return to sanity is in order.

So back to Old Oak Common lineside.

Castle 5057, Earl Waldegrave in April 1963. It was an Old Oak Common loco from March 1960. It was withdrawn from there in March 1964. It went to Swindon for scrapping which was done in August the same year.



Same time, same location and another Castle which can't be identified, largely because of the Z10 reporting number.



Also in April 1963 condensing pannier 9700 on empty stock. It was another Old Oak engine and to the best of my knowledge always had been. It was withdrawn in October 1963 and went to Swindon for scrapping which was complete by the end of December the same year.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Still at Old Oak, April 1963 for this one. Modified Hall 7900 St Peter's Hall is about to pass Old Oak Shed. It was a long term resident of Oxford - in fact from early 1952 and was withdrawn from there at the end of December 1964. It was scrapped at the end of April 1965 at Banbury Shed by J Friswell which suggests that it was unable to make the journey to a conventional scrapyard.



Arguably a more useful photo for us loco builders is this portrait of Jubilee 45600 Bermuda at Willesden Shed in June 1963. It had been a Patricroft engine since 1950 and moved to Newton Heath in January 1965. Withdrawal occurred in December the same year and it went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped during April 1966.



Back to the Western here. This is at West Ealing in June 1963. The loco is Castle 7005 Sir Edward Elgar which had lived at Worcester since new in 1946 but ended up at Southall in August 1964 from where it was withdrawn a month later. It went to Cohen's, Morriston where it was scrapped in January 1965.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

Sir Edward has a GWR C74 open third behind the Tender. Open coaches were comparatively rare on the GWR. It is a toilet at the nearer end although the stepboard gives the impression there is a door there.

Seeing these pictures makes me wish I had been there. The Manchester area, where I lived, had died the death by 1963 and was uninteresting and rundown.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for that comment, Larry. It all adds to the info I can attach to each photo.

In fairness I think that early to mid 1963 was the last period when steam reigned on the GW main lines out of London. By the end of the year most express locos were being withdrawn or ending up at the few remining steam sheds like Southall which, in truth, had a sorry collection.

The exception was. of course, the Southern from Waterloo to Bournemouth and surrounding areas. When steam ended there it was like an axe had fallen.

We're lucky to have memories of "real" steam.

 

[David B]

It’s great to be able to view more of Tim’s photos - many thanks Brian for continuing to share them.

I’m having difficulty working out where in the West Ealing area Sir Edward could be. I’m wondering whether it’s on the down main between Iver and Langley, with Iver station in the distance and the pylon near where the M25 crosses the line these days beyond that.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for trying, David. Sorry to say I can't confirm the location and Tim left no notes apart from the general "West Ealing". I have, nevertheless, added your comments to the details I already have as they may stimulate more research.

Another West Ealing shot which may help to confirm the location although in truth there's little enough in the way of geographical features to help! So, West Ealing, June 1963 with Castle 7000, Viscount Portal. Details about the loco appear in post # 1179 so are not repeated here.



Now some nice atmospheric shots inside Old Oak Common Shed in May 1963. I have warm memories of this vast shed with four covered turntables. Here is "tanner-oner" 6135 - one of the London-centric locos used on the suburban services from Paddington and carrying an 81A, Old Oak, shed plate. I reckon that, by this time, their suburban service days were over, having been replaced by DMUs although I remember them well on the suburban services - they had great acceleration and a good turn of speed. Records show that 6135 was an Old Oak loco from 1948, moving to Reading in October 1964, then Southall in January 1965 and finally Oxford in September the same year, being withdrawn three months later. It was disposed of at Cashmore's, Newport by the end of March 1966.



Still at Old Oak in May 1963 are Modified Hall 7903 Foremarke Hall and Hall 4903 Astley Hall both carrying 81A shed plates. The history of 7903 is a bit blurred, although it was an Old Oak engine from 1948. It likely remained there until November 1963 when it went to Cardiff East Dock. It was withdrawn in June 1964 and went to Barry in August 1964. It escaped in June 1981. Restoration was completed and it is now operational on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway.

4903 was not so lucky, moving from Old Oak to Taunton in June 1963, then Southall in September the same year and then Worcester in October where it appears to have been immediately withdrawn, going to Steel Supply Co, Jersey Marine, where it was scrapped by the end of April 1964.



Brian

 

[Osgood]

The moody play of light and shade in the view of 6135 makes this one of my favourite images so far.

 

[LarryG]

Getting 7903 and 4903 side by side was a scoop showing the differences between original and modified 'Hall' class locos. I prefer the Modified version because that was the latest thing when I was a boy.

The lack of telegraph poles in the 'West Ealing' shot shows it must have been an early area for conversion to troughing. This didn't commence on the Chester-Holyhead line until the late 1970's.

 

[daifly]

I'm intrigued by the extra set of 'broad gauge' rails in the West Ealing photos. They are fishplated and appear to be attached to large wooden blocks so presumably a temporary installation. Does anyone have an idea what they are there for?
Dave

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I would have said these are either new rails to replace the existing rails or vice versa. Guard rails are usually between the tracks similar to those on bridges. On the other side of the tracks it is evident they are installing new troughs for signalling so it could be part of PW works.

 

[astropsidings]

Re the extra rails, I would suggest track for track laying machines - gantries that ran along the additional rails and could pick up or drop panels where required.
The Mid-Hants Railway used 1964-built examples when laying the Ropley-Medstead section in the 1980s.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I’m having difficulty working out where in the West Ealing area Sir Edward could be. I’m wondering whether it’s on the down main between Iver and Langley, with Iver station in the distance and the pylon near where the M25 crosses the line these days beyond that.

Having looked as the 1949-1970 OS 1:10,560 map on NLS I think you're correct in your possible location for these two photos. I've annotated and reproduced them here (apologies Brian) to try and provide a rationale.

I think both photos were taken from the same location near an overbridge close to Richings Park Quarry oustside Iver (blue circle and arrows).



The first photo looking East has the sidings on the left (circled) and the signal post, box and the housing on the right which appears on the map.


The second photo looking West has a large building (circled) on the horizon in the background which maybe the works indicated on the map.


It's certainly not West Ealing itself as the area is too countrified

 

[Dave Holt]

Brian.
Would it be OK for me to send a copy of the 7903 shot to the current custodians at the GWSR, suitably credited, of course?
Dave.

 

[oldravendale]

Brian.
Would it be OK for me to send a copy of the 7903 shot to the current custodians at the GWSR, suitably credited, of course?
Dave.

Dave - Please hold on that until I can give you the all clear. I continue to talk to Tim's wife about any reproduction of the photos outside an agreed set of conditions. I'll see what we can do to make that shot available, though.

In any event, for reproduction you'll benefit from a higher def image which I'll be able to forward to you when agreement is obtained.

Brian