7mm US model dabblings
- Thread starter Jordan or Plymouth Mad
- Start date
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
I agree with Mick on this subject, of late there are often two piercing saws on our table - one frame has a 2/o blade for cutting sprues, bar and rod whilst the other frame has 5/0 for tube and etches.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Mick and Jim.
I always now cut tube using a Stanley knife (don't know what you'd call that in the US of A, but it's a very sharp knife often used by carpet fitters and the like.) It's very simple as it involves simply rolling the tube under the blade and ensuring that the witness mark matches as it rolls through 360 degrees. I've cut tiny slivers of tube to use as washers and also thick tube, which takes a bit longer but gives a reliable 90 degree cut. There is an obvious disadvantage and that is that there will be an internal burr where the blade breaks through. I've always been able to remove this by dextrous use of a drill or reamer. For a really small piece of tubing it helps to solder it to a backing of brass, drill and ream out before releasing it by use of a blow torch.
Give it a try and see whether you like it.
Agree with all your stuff about soldering, Mick. Learnt from hard experience! Wish I'd had this tutorial when I started.
Brian
I always now cut tube using a Stanley knife (don't know what you'd call that in the US of A, but it's a very sharp knife often used by carpet fitters and the like.) It's very simple as it involves simply rolling the tube under the blade and ensuring that the witness mark matches as it rolls through 360 degrees. I've cut tiny slivers of tube to use as washers and also thick tube, which takes a bit longer but gives a reliable 90 degree cut. There is an obvious disadvantage and that is that there will be an internal burr where the blade breaks through. I've always been able to remove this by dextrous use of a drill or reamer. For a really small piece of tubing it helps to solder it to a backing of brass, drill and ream out before releasing it by use of a blow torch.
Give it a try and see whether you like it.
Agree with all your stuff about soldering, Mick. Learnt from hard experience! Wish I'd had this tutorial when I started.
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Y'all, thanks for the comments, Jim did ask and I don't need many excuse to blather on 
Brian, where would we be without Mr Stanleys wonderful knife
, I've heard of that technique before but never tried it brass, I tend to just use a very fine piercing saw blade. To trim the resultant piece I stick a piece of wire the same ID into a vice so just a small spigot is sticking out the top of the jaws, the thickness of the ring I want, slip the cut piece of tube over the top and just file until you hit the spigot.
Moving glacially onward, I'm a little sore today, well a bloody lot actually after yesterdays skydive, I had what's called a hard opening....typical, could only happen to me, so we decelerated from 120 mph to 20 mph in about 2 seconds. The instructor was very apologetic and they did check me over before I left when we landed, apparently the G force was probably up around the 8 - 10 G mark but in extreme cases can be much higher. A normal chute opening is usually around 4 G, all I know is we stopped bloody fast and it bloody well hurt, but, I'm looking to go again
So back to the MP15DC, just pottering on with the paper filter box and a couple of hatches on top, yes they took the best part of a whole day, but they are square, parallel and have sharp edges all round. For those interested in this sort of thing, the undercut piece is 0.015" with a 0.028" lid on top, getting the edges to the lid crisp and sharp was hard work and is an area I'm traditionally not very good at. Handle is 0.5 mm dia as are the two small hinges.
The undercut pieces was soldered on with 100°C and the lids stuck on with Loctite 480 as were the handles in pre-drilled holes and the hinges. The adhesive easily held the small hinges whilst cleaning up with a fibre pencil, though I didn't attack it like I would a soldered joint.
Next up is the small tapered lid at the front, might get the base done today but it'll be dark so no decent photos for a short while.
Just noticed the wonky roof, it's not stuck down yet, need to get back to that but was itchy about getting the hatch lids crisp and square, which I've just rechecked with photos and they look about 1 mm too short front to back and 1 mm too far back, tough, mines had some local modifications and they're replacement hatches, coz I'm not doing them again
Brian, where would we be without Mr Stanleys wonderful knife
, I've heard of that technique before but never tried it brass, I tend to just use a very fine piercing saw blade. To trim the resultant piece I stick a piece of wire the same ID into a vice so just a small spigot is sticking out the top of the jaws, the thickness of the ring I want, slip the cut piece of tube over the top and just file until you hit the spigot.Moving glacially onward, I'm a little sore today, well a bloody lot actually after yesterdays skydive, I had what's called a hard opening....typical, could only happen to me, so we decelerated from 120 mph to 20 mph in about 2 seconds. The instructor was very apologetic and they did check me over before I left when we landed, apparently the G force was probably up around the 8 - 10 G mark but in extreme cases can be much higher. A normal chute opening is usually around 4 G, all I know is we stopped bloody fast and it bloody well hurt, but, I'm looking to go again
So back to the MP15DC, just pottering on with the paper filter box and a couple of hatches on top, yes they took the best part of a whole day, but they are square, parallel and have sharp edges all round. For those interested in this sort of thing, the undercut piece is 0.015" with a 0.028" lid on top, getting the edges to the lid crisp and sharp was hard work and is an area I'm traditionally not very good at. Handle is 0.5 mm dia as are the two small hinges.
The undercut pieces was soldered on with 100°C and the lids stuck on with Loctite 480 as were the handles in pre-drilled holes and the hinges. The adhesive easily held the small hinges whilst cleaning up with a fibre pencil, though I didn't attack it like I would a soldered joint.
Next up is the small tapered lid at the front, might get the base done today but it'll be dark so no decent photos for a short while.
Just noticed the wonky roof, it's not stuck down yet, need to get back to that but was itchy about getting the hatch lids crisp and square, which I've just rechecked with photos and they look about 1 mm too short front to back and 1 mm too far back, tough, mines had some local modifications and they're replacement hatches, coz I'm not doing them again
Last edited:
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
Do you talk an octave higher, now, Mick??!! 
mickoo
Western Thunderer
LOL, nearly, but being used to wearing a harness at work when hanging off cranes, I'd made sure it was in the right placeDo you talk an octave higher, now, Mick??!!
Managed another half hour or so before "honey do's" and finished off the last cover, it should be riveted and the first one was, and all lumpy along the thin edge, so this one will have printed rivets added later.
Just have to add a couple of straps on the main covers by the handles and a thin riveted strap over the bonnet directly in front of the filter housing and behind the engine overhead cover doors and this bit'll be done.
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2861735
Sorry to do a slight Thread Hijack, but I have a question for Jim hopefully, that does come under the Thread Title...
I am in the process of 'improving' a Weaver Geep, to represent this CSX machine; #2810, still in YN2, linked to above.
That's about the best overhead view I can find of it on the web; my question is concerning the cab roof details - what are they??
I know the long thin thing at the middle/ rear is a radio antenna, but what type? (Not 'firecracker' I assume.) Then over the Fireman's* side what's the round thing with a black pipe (conduit?) out the back?
I'm a bit stuck as without the proper names for these bits, an internet search for better, close-up pics of them is a bit futile, & the details listings of shops like P&D & Des Plaines don't tend to put up pictures, so you need to know the exact name of the part to order the correct bit - if it's available! Otherwise a bit of scratch-bodging will be required, hence a need for better pictures!!!
Help!!!!
* note for UK-outline Lurkers; yes it's a Diesel but the Americans still call the Second Man the Fireman, hence "Engineer's side" & "Fireman's side". On double track they drive on the right, & the Engineer sits on the right, like British & Japanese car drivers.
so in the pic I linked to, as you look at the loco, the Engineer sits this side of the cab, the Fireman's side has the front cab door open.
Sorry to do a slight Thread Hijack, but I have a question for Jim hopefully, that does come under the Thread Title...
I am in the process of 'improving' a Weaver Geep, to represent this CSX machine; #2810, still in YN2, linked to above.
That's about the best overhead view I can find of it on the web; my question is concerning the cab roof details - what are they??
I know the long thin thing at the middle/ rear is a radio antenna, but what type? (Not 'firecracker' I assume.) Then over the Fireman's* side what's the round thing with a black pipe (conduit?) out the back?
I'm a bit stuck as without the proper names for these bits, an internet search for better, close-up pics of them is a bit futile, & the details listings of shops like P&D & Des Plaines don't tend to put up pictures, so you need to know the exact name of the part to order the correct bit - if it's available! Otherwise a bit of scratch-bodging will be required, hence a need for better pictures!!!
Help!!!!
* note for UK-outline Lurkers; yes it's a Diesel but the Americans still call the Second Man the Fireman, hence "Engineer's side" & "Fireman's side". On double track they drive on the right, & the Engineer sits on the right, like British & Japanese car drivers.
so in the pic I linked to, as you look at the loco, the Engineer sits this side of the cab, the Fireman's side has the front cab door open. 
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Hi Jordan,
I'm traveling at the moment but am flying home this afternoon. I'll take a look at your pic on my computer. The antenna is a Sinclair type, very run if the mill along with the firecracker types. I'll have to look at the picture at better resolution when I get home for the other stuff up there.
A couple of other thoughts. Yes, p&d and des Plaines have no pictures which makes it nearly impossible to order on line. Details West us a parts manufacturer in N and HO that has a catalog with images. You can't get O scale parts from them but you could use their catalog as a reference if sorts to identify parts.
Another suggestion is to check out and possibly join the diesel detailers forum. The name says it all. You could post that photo over there and most like get info on the roof top components.
All for now. Composing my usual dissertation-length post on my phone is but tedious.
One last thing, I think nowadays the second man in the cab is more commonly referred to as the brakeman rather than fireman. I think we are now at the point where anyone that was an actual fireman on steam and made the transition to diesel has retired. I think most of the generation define themselves as brakeman as they have never had a reason to associate themselvs with the traditional fireman's role.
Regards from the Seattle Tacoma airport gate D4....
Jim
I'm traveling at the moment but am flying home this afternoon. I'll take a look at your pic on my computer. The antenna is a Sinclair type, very run if the mill along with the firecracker types. I'll have to look at the picture at better resolution when I get home for the other stuff up there.
A couple of other thoughts. Yes, p&d and des Plaines have no pictures which makes it nearly impossible to order on line. Details West us a parts manufacturer in N and HO that has a catalog with images. You can't get O scale parts from them but you could use their catalog as a reference if sorts to identify parts.
Another suggestion is to check out and possibly join the diesel detailers forum. The name says it all. You could post that photo over there and most like get info on the roof top components.
All for now. Composing my usual dissertation-length post on my phone is but tedious.
One last thing, I think nowadays the second man in the cab is more commonly referred to as the brakeman rather than fireman. I think we are now at the point where anyone that was an actual fireman on steam and made the transition to diesel has retired. I think most of the generation define themselves as brakeman as they have never had a reason to associate themselvs with the traditional fireman's role.
Regards from the Seattle Tacoma airport gate D4....
Jim
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
I stand corrected/updated on Firemen!! 
Jim thanks for taking the time to reply on the go!! Much appreciated! I've been told the other thing is a GPS Dome, so now I've got something to Google for better pics.
Then I can perform some more Comedy Modelling....
Seattle, eh? Home to a favourite Short Line of mine, the Ballard Terminal.
Jim thanks for taking the time to reply on the go!! Much appreciated! I've been told the other thing is a GPS Dome, so now I've got something to Google for better pics.
Then I can perform some more Comedy Modelling....
Seattle, eh? Home to a favourite Short Line of mine, the Ballard Terminal.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Feel free to hijack, all useful stuff.
My understanding, talking to the crews at Taft is that there can be three guys on class one trains, the driver, the conductor and a brakeman, their roles are unique and distinct.
The driver, drives the train, but, it is not 'his' train, he simply makes it go and stop. The conductor 'owns' the train and is responsible for it's safe passage with control and gives the driver clearance to proceed. The brakeman is there to deal with any train issues en route, split air lines, loose cargo, in which case both the conductor and brakeman will perform any necessary actions to make the train safe. It will be the conductor who deems the actions safe and then inform the driver to proceed.
Of course this varies with company and I suspect local agreements and I have a vague recollection that a conductor is required if the train crosses a state line, which is why locals only require two crew, a driver and brakeman.
Regarding the roof, there are two blade antennas for communication, I believe the large one is for communication to dispatch on the road over large distances, the smaller one used for local radio traffic and hostling etc. Your right, the white dome is GPS and I believe the black conduit is just that, to supply the power and data to the GPS antenna which requires a large ground plane to sit on and hence more toward the middle of the cab roof. EMD spartan cabs have very thin roofs so most cables are run on the outside and the black conduit looks long enough to line up with the electrical cubicle built into the rear wall of the cab. There also looks to be another small antenna toward the rear of the GPS ground plane, no idea what that is for.
The panel on the bonnet top is for the dunny, they are modular and are lifted in and out through this hatch, or were at that time of production in the EMD catalogue. The circular vent on the side of the bonnet in front of the driver is the vent for said above commode.
One other little detail is the small orange shrouded lamp on the chassis by the front step well, seen here in detail on this ES40DC
It's not EMD or GE specific, nor wholesale, some classes do not have it and others seem quite common, maybe even whole classes, despite all the photos I have, I don't have 'yet' photos of every loco LOL It's an indicator of some sort but I've not dug too deep just yet.
My understanding, talking to the crews at Taft is that there can be three guys on class one trains, the driver, the conductor and a brakeman, their roles are unique and distinct.
The driver, drives the train, but, it is not 'his' train, he simply makes it go and stop. The conductor 'owns' the train and is responsible for it's safe passage with control and gives the driver clearance to proceed. The brakeman is there to deal with any train issues en route, split air lines, loose cargo, in which case both the conductor and brakeman will perform any necessary actions to make the train safe. It will be the conductor who deems the actions safe and then inform the driver to proceed.
Of course this varies with company and I suspect local agreements and I have a vague recollection that a conductor is required if the train crosses a state line, which is why locals only require two crew, a driver and brakeman.
Regarding the roof, there are two blade antennas for communication, I believe the large one is for communication to dispatch on the road over large distances, the smaller one used for local radio traffic and hostling etc. Your right, the white dome is GPS and I believe the black conduit is just that, to supply the power and data to the GPS antenna which requires a large ground plane to sit on and hence more toward the middle of the cab roof. EMD spartan cabs have very thin roofs so most cables are run on the outside and the black conduit looks long enough to line up with the electrical cubicle built into the rear wall of the cab. There also looks to be another small antenna toward the rear of the GPS ground plane, no idea what that is for.
The panel on the bonnet top is for the dunny, they are modular and are lifted in and out through this hatch, or were at that time of production in the EMD catalogue. The circular vent on the side of the bonnet in front of the driver is the vent for said above commode.
One other little detail is the small orange shrouded lamp on the chassis by the front step well, seen here in detail on this ES40DC
It's not EMD or GE specific, nor wholesale, some classes do not have it and others seem quite common, maybe even whole classes, despite all the photos I have, I don't have 'yet' photos of every loco LOL It's an indicator of some sort but I've not dug too deep just yet.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
The thought of Jordan on a cat-walk is mind blowing
.
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
Trucks do have cat-walks. I'm on one every night...The thought of Jordan on a cat-walk is mind blowing
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Wow! I just read my post from earlier today. What a mess of auto-correct typos. That's why I hate typing anything meaningful on my phone.
Well I looked at Jordan's photo on my computer and I can't really discern any additional information with certainty. I'm not totally convinced that the black item behind the gps dome is a conduit, as it seems pretty heavy duty compared to most cab-top conduits I've seen. But then given its position, really what else would it be? I'll take a look around and see if I can get a different pic or angle.
Regarding crews, out west two man crews seem most common to me, with occasional extra riders in the cab. And after some thought, I think the second man in the cab is referred to as the conductor as often as he is called brakeman. Apropos of nothing, on the BNSF website, the job categories for road crews are listed as Conductor and Engineer.
Jim
Well I looked at Jordan's photo on my computer and I can't really discern any additional information with certainty. I'm not totally convinced that the black item behind the gps dome is a conduit, as it seems pretty heavy duty compared to most cab-top conduits I've seen. But then given its position, really what else would it be? I'll take a look around and see if I can get a different pic or angle.
Regarding crews, out west two man crews seem most common to me, with occasional extra riders in the cab. And after some thought, I think the second man in the cab is referred to as the conductor as often as he is called brakeman. Apropos of nothing, on the BNSF website, the job categories for road crews are listed as Conductor and Engineer.
Jim
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
I was in Seattle to help my sister move house. I hadn't ever been there before, and hoped to check out some railroad action. I ended up with barely enough time to breathe, so no exploration this time.Seattle, eh? Home to a favourite Short Line of mine, the Ballard Terminal.
I will however say that I saw quite a bit of neat industrial areas on the way from the airport into town, plus all the port facilities as well. Seattle. especially the south end, has a very different feel then Denver with regard to the industrial flavor. I'd love to have time to wander around and discover some new things.
Jim
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
I'm more familiar with "Engineer" & "Conductor" (UK equivalent would be the Guard) certainly, but then I've never seen the left-hand side of a loco referred to as "the Conductor's side" ....
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I'm more familiar with "Engineer" & "Conductor" (UK equivalent would be the Guard) certainly, but then I've never seen the left-hand side of a loco referred to as "the Conductor's side" ....
Really ? (and that's a friendly 'really', not a sarcastic one
), I've only ever seen it called the conductors side, I think both GE and EMD call it the conductors desk inside on their new safety cab models, maybe not so on spartan cabs as there is no desk that side Nice article here written by a former RR employee
http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/cabtour/cabtoura.htm
A quick google straw pole finds lots of references to the conductors side or desk, maybe it's a more modern term since the safety cabs evolved, and, being as it's those locomotives that interest me the most might be why the term is more familiar
Just type "(insert loco of choice) conductors side" and there's plenty of hits, even GP38-2
One site you might be interested in, specifically deals with the chassis traction motor cables for GP38-2, if you are so inclined to add them
https://sites.google.com/a/railflye...or-cabling/gp38-2gp40-2-traction-motor-cables
Enjoy.
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
As my main Era of interest does tend to pre-date Safety Cabs, then yes, really I am increasingly behind the times, obviously!! 
In fact whilst researching for this Geep I am constantly reminded of that; the loco itself is well over 30 years old and the livery is also 'out of date' by some years.... and this is a project I'm thinking of as "modern" by my standards!!
I am increasingly behind the times, obviously!! In fact whilst researching for this Geep I am constantly reminded of that; the loco itself is well over 30 years old and the livery is also 'out of date' by some years.... and this is a project I'm thinking of as "modern" by my standards!!
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Another close up of the conduit on the cab roof, all be it on a ES44AH I and in this case painted white.
CSX N087-26 at Widow Creek by Kerry Douglas, on Flickr
CSX N087-26 at Widow Creek by Kerry Douglas, on Flickr
Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
Nice shot! "Overhead" views of US stuff do seem quite rare.
The main thing I know about modern locos like that one is that the Class 66 roof height more-or-less matches the yellow nose panel on it, & the profile isn't far off either.
The main thing I know about modern locos like that one is that the Class 66 roof height more-or-less matches the yellow nose panel on it, & the profile isn't far off either.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
There's a very good reason for that, the US prefers grade crossing, cheaper but more deadly, more so in America
Bridges are expensive and trains infrequent so bridges tend to only be used on arterial routes, of which, access is usually rather difficult. There's one at Taft and I've seen photos from there but no idea where the photographer parked (always worried about a break in on rental vehicle) and not too keen on being verbally abused or accosted by the law. People taking photos of trains is very rare in the US, even more so on a busy road over a freight yard.
You could 'time' it right and walk over as a train is approaching, but at Taft there's only two or three daylight trains and they run ad hoc as and when, I'm looking for some bridges further south around Plant City, Dade City and Wildwood, but trains are usually hammering along at those locations.
roof shots are on my list of achievements this year, we'll see how it goes