Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Bigjohn]

Re the cab side of 7031,,,,,,clearly the designer of the cab side rivets and the designer of the livery were clearly no modellers.
How inconvenient to put rivets under the lining livery…….

Now having a perfect LH cab detail was the RH cab side a mirror image of the LH???

 

[Martin Shaw]

If the Jubilee in #927 has a number that ends in 37 and it certainly looks like it, then it can only be 45737 Atlas, a Crewe North engine at the time and for just one week more whence it emigrated to Newton Heath on 31/3/62. For info 45637 Windward Islands was withdrawn after the Harrow crash in 1952 and subsequently scrapped.
Martin

 

[cmax]

A3 format book I titled "The Best of The Best"

Can I ask for more details about this book please.

Many Thanks
Gary

 

[Dan Randall]

I'd not noticed the out of gauge coal, @J_F_S but now you mention it... Tim told the story of linesiding at one time and a lump of coal came out of the tender of a loco running very fast straight past his earole. He reckoned it would have brained him if he'd been a few inches to the right.

That was lucky - he could have been knocked out coaled…


Regards

Dan

 

[oldravendale]

That's really helpful, Dave @Dave Holt and @JimJim . Having travelled that stretch of line quite a lot in the early 1960s I should have recognised it but failed to do so. It's a background (and foreground in respect of the station) that has changed completely. I agree - the giveaway is the similarity of background in those two photos.

@Bigjohn - I'm far from the correct person to ask about the cab sides of Castles but doubtless someone will be able to comment.

Thank you for a likely identification of that Jubilee, Martin @Martin Shaw . Yes, I'm aware of the history of 45637. My reading of the number as 46537 was clearly nonsense which, I'm pleased to say, I recognised.

Here's the background to the book, Gary @cmax . "The Best of the Best" was a one off which I created for Tim in the knowledge that he had never printed a lot of his negatives and that he was coming to the end of his life. It is lodged with his wife. As such it had no accompanying captions as he was familiar with the images. However, Tim's family and I have been considering the publication of something similar but with captions which are now so much more complete thanks to the input of members of this forum. We are inclined to make this a very limited publication, in A3 format which will sell for a high price with profits going to Tim's two favourite projects, the rebuild of Boscastle and the GCR. However, and here's the rub, no-one on this forum has seen any of Tim's colour images yet and some of those are crackers. They'll appear on here first before Tim's family and I make a final selection.

Then we come to Dan @Dan Randall . I think that deserves a large G R O A N! but accompanied by applause.

Two classic Kings Cross portraits and neither of which appeared in Tim's list of preferred photos. V2 60869 – for details see the previous post of img930 – and A3 60112 St Simon at Kings Cross at some time at the end of 1962. In the first photo a Deltic is in the background and in the second D5645 gets another look in. St Simon received the German style deflectors on a general overhaul visit to Doncaster in October 1962 dating the photo to after that month. In July 1961 it was at Grantham and had been since July 1959. In October 1963 it was allocated to Doncaster and went to New England in November 1963 being withdrawn from there just after Christmas in 1964. (SLS). It was sold to Kings of Norwich for scrap in February 1965. (BR Database).





Two photos here of different unidentified A3s at Potters Bar - or could this be Hornsey again - at some time in 1962 and judging by the snow in December. That was the winter where the snow continued until March 1963. I love the atmosphere created in that second photo.





Previously in post #4223 is A4 60017 Silver Fox with a series of photos here at Kings Cross circa 1962 – 1963 with D5640 in the second and third images. The A4 was a resident of Kings Cross where it had lived since new in December 1935, moving to New England in June 1963 and being withdrawn in October. (SLS). It went to Doncaster Works for disposal which was completed by the year end. (BR Database). D5640 was introduced to Finsbury Park in August 1960, became 31407 in February 1974 and 31507 at the end of April 1990. In May 1988 it moved to Crewe where it was withdrawn at the end of May 2006 going thence to Ron Hull Jr at Rotherham where it was broken up in October the same year. (All BR Database). Tim left it to me to choose which of the middle two to incorporate in his final photo display at Loughborough.









Brian

 

[76043]

The two chaps in front of Kings Cross signal box is another interesting shot for modellers, in terms of placement, but also interesting as to what they may have been doing there? One is clearly a fireman, the other signalling or admin? They have probably just enjoyed a quick cigarette and a chat, maybe they are related or just mates? We'll never know.
Tony

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian
The two unidentified A3s are as you think at Hornsey rather than Potters Bar although I believe that the snow that winter commenced on Boxing Day so it could be December 1962 but I feel early in 1963. Either way there is no doubt that Tim Mills had a way of capturing the cold weather, it is a consistent sense in his winter time pics.

The first pic is a loco with a GN tender, what I am certain is a Dia 109 boiler, split smokebox handrail with numberplate underneath it. This along with geographical considerations pretty much limits the options to one of five engines.
60054 Prince Palatine Grantham
60062 Minoru New England
60063 Isinglass Kings X
60066 Merry Hampton Kings X
60112 St Simon Grantham

They have all appeared in this thread before, there are one or two other options mainly ScR allocations which are less likely. The second pic no chance really but likely one of those above.
Martin

 

[Osgood]

Brian,

David Postle, Adrian White and the Kidderminster Railway Museum have worked with Colin Gifford to produce a lovely 12" x 12" format book of his colour images - in the wink of an eye which has just been published and available from the KRM.

A nice example of a well designed and produced book, and I would highly recommend it for its superb content (late steam era, plenty of industrial interest too).
One of those books you can enjoy for its quality alone, not just its content.

 

[cmax]

Here's the background to the book, Gary @cmax . "The Best of the Best"

Brian, Thank you for your response, and I will go on record to say, if you do go ahead and produce the limited Edition, can you add my name on the list please.

Many Thanks,

Gary

 

[simond]

Brian

Please add me to the list…

Thx
Simon

 

[Osgood]

Oh yes.

 

[Mick B]

And me too please Brian.
Regards, Mick.

 

[oldravendale]

Tony @Osgood - I rather liked the composition and content of that photo too. As you say we'll never know what those two chaps were chatting about but their presence really makes the picture for me.

As ever, Martin @Martin Shaw thanks for your thoughts about the A3s. At least that narrows the field a bit!

I have to say that I'm surprised and delighted in equal measure to learn of the interest in a potential book of Tim's photos. It remains a while away yet - even now I'm editing his colour slides and still have another two large storage boxes to scan. Then there's the more difficult issue of selecting something between 60 and 100 of the best images. I'm particularly interested in "in the wink of an eye", Tony @Osgood as an example.

V2 60880 on the 6.32 York Parcels at Kings Cross Circa 1962 – 1963 with York Road platforms in the background. The V2 was a New England loco from 17th September 1961 (BR Database), moved to Doncaster in June 1963 and was withdrawn in the following September. (SLS). It was scrapped in Doncaster Works on 14th November 1963. (BR Database).



Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73013 believed to be at Euston in 1962 - 1963 carrying a 1A, Willesden, shed plate. We saw this last in posts #2040, #3623 and #4202. It moved to Willesden from Chester in May 1960 then Bletchley in March 1964, Oxley February 1965, Banbury five months later thereafter ending up at Bolton in May 1966 where it was immediately withdrawn. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped during August the same year. (BR Database).



An unidentified WD 2-8-0 at North Wembley at some time around 1963.



Two different unidentified Fairburn 2-6-4Ts, and one down local and one up van train at North Wembley at some time in 1963.





Brian

 

[76043]

Would the two GW fitted vans (they have tie bars) behind the WD be there for brake assistance? If so would they also be loaded and thus earning revenue?

Nice to also see a Fairburn on a freight, living up to their 4MT designation. It must have been a transfer working or short trip as it wouldn't have the coal and water capacity for a long slog on the WCML?
Tony

 

[AJC]

Would the two GW fitted vans (they have tie bars) behind the WD be there for brake assistance? If so would they also be loaded and thus earning revenue?

Brake force, almost certainly. They might well be empty, but they might not. The revenue they’re not earning, if empty, offset by being able to stop better and run a little quicker.

The front one is earlier, and would have had a 9’ wheelbase so not XP rated. 1963 is getting a bit late for those.

Adam

 

[Roger Pound]

The views of A4 60017 'Silver Fox' in #5385 revived memories of many trainspotting Saturdays at Grantham in my early teens. Amongst several locos one could almost certainly reckon to be on shed 'Silver Fox' was high on the list despite its Kings Cross allocation Typically of locos from that depot, it was always respectably clean. It was, if I recall correctly, in the earl;y British Railways blue livery as were a number of A4's in those days - I refer to the very early 1950's. As an aside, the two gents outside the signal box would not have had to go outside just for a smoke in those days - the habit was socially acceptable then.

Thank you for recalling more happy times, now long past.

Roger.

 

[76043]

The front one is earlier, and would have had a 9’ wheelbase so not XP rated. 1963 is getting a bit late for those.

I noted the first one was the 9' ancient van by the door pattern, as you say not far off withdrawal.
Cheers
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

With apologies I credited @Osgood with @76043 (or the other way around) ! I apologise to both. The comments are truly valued.

Anyway Tony @76043 (the correct one this time!) thanks for yours about the GWR vans. Doubtless, as you suggest, this was a local van train but despite many hours alongside the LNWR main line around where the photo was taken it's not a scene I remember. Then, Adam @AJC thanks for expanding the data. It's always good to see an "ancient" van...

Thanks Roger @Roger Pound for the memories adding some background to the photo. As you say, smoking at work was not an issue in those days! At the time I was probably on 40 a day. I (painfully) stopped over night about 40 years ago.

8F 48629 on the slow lines with an Engineers'/ ballast train at South Kenton on 8th April 1962. Note the workman with no hi-vis jacket stepping in to a running line. We've seen the 8F previously in posts #1244 and #2625. It lived at Willesden at the time of the photo where it had been a fixture since at least January 1948 (BR Database), moving to Birkenhead Mollington Street in October, then Saltley at the end of November 1963. (SLS). It was withdrawn in September 1966 and went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped by the end of the year. (BR Database).

Of note is the pair of bare wires running along the edge of the roof of South Kenton Station. Guards had a brass end to their green flag which they could (probably had to) touch to the two wires to ring a bell so that the motorman heard a bell confirming that the train was cleared to go.



The works trains still being on the slow lines Royal Scot ex-”Fury” 46170 British Legion on an up express at South Kenton on 8th April 1962. It was allocated to Crewe North in July 1960, was loaned to Camden in August, back to Crewe in September and on loan to Camden again in October before a return to Crewe North in December – all in 1960 – and a final allocation to Llandudno Junction in October 1962 and withdrawal in December the same year. (SLS). The loco was observed at Crewe Works on 1st January 1963 (WHTS) where it was scrapped on 11th January1963. (BR Database).



Previously in post #3586 was Princess Coronation 46221 Queen Elizabeth here at the buffer stops at Euston on 9th April 1962 and then backing out (a movement I simply don’t remember from my own observations) on the back of what was, presumably, empty stock. I assume the train engine is pushing out the empty stock and the Coronation is on the end of the train in order to save a light engine movement. The loco was allocated to Carlisle Upperby in February/March 1961, then Carlisle Kingmoor in March/April and finally back to Upperby in April/May 1962 where it was withdrawn in May 1963. (SLS). The Railway Observer reported it in C Shop at Crewe Works on 22nd June 1963 after a failure at Camden. It was scrapped in July 1963 (BR Database) and it’s reasonable to assume that the deed was carried out at Crewe.





Brian

 

[Osgood]

8F 48629:
In post 5398 above and 2625 (both 8th April 1962) it has a Fowler tender - a year later in April 63 (post 1244) it is coupled to a Stanier tender.
How common was the 8F / Fowler tender combo? I just googled it and the first image that came up was of a Gladiator kit

 

[3 LINK]

Brian,

I’m late to the party, but please add me to the list.

Regards Martyn.