daifly
Western Thunderer
How does one proint?
Dave
A Tale of Two Serpents
- Thread starter RichardG
- Start date
Dave
Tony Overton
Western Thunderer
I'm glad some one has asked.
michael080
Western Thunderer
I you want to proint them matching to Slaters wheels, you can take these from the resources library.
RCH brake blocks
adrian
Flying Squad
I should have credited @michael080 as I cheated by using the blocks he's uploaded to the resource area, I practiced my 3D modelling skills on the centre yoke which includes a small amount of twist in the outer bushes so the push rods have a little dihedral when fitted rather than being completely flat.
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks Michael,
I worked up my own from the RCH drawings which are also in the resources section. Maybe there’s too much slop in my suspension, or more likely, not enough slop in the brake assembly (Which was a one-piece 3DP, unlike Adrian’s assembly of parts)
cheers
Simon
RichardG
Western Thunderer
I have written to Ennis75 to see if they can supply a better casting. If this is not possible, I have some brass strip to let me rebuild the present casting with the brakes nearer the wheels. I can live without insulation because my Serpent has no suspension.
simond
Western Thunderer
I'm sorry, this made me giggle.
RichardG
Western Thunderer
Yes - yesterday we drove past a solitary bus stop marooned inside roadworks and labelled up as "bus stop closed". We wondered if this was any better than the "bus stop suspended" signs we have seen before.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Mmm. don't get me started on Councils wasting public money. Having worked for a council for 20 years I have first hand experience.
How does, give a piece of land away, then buy it back for 5 million grab you...
Headstocks and buffers (Nick)
magmouse
Western Thunderer
I've been feeling guilty about not reporting progress on my model of the Serpent - the original idea between Richard and me was for a 'parallel build', but Richard's model is close to finished and mine is still a pile of pieces on the work bench.
This is party because I was away the week before last for work, and I've been busy with other things, but also... every time I decide to do a bit of this kit, I find something else wrong with it. This morning's irritation is the discover that the solebars are too far apart, and the flange on the bottom of the solebars is too deep. The result is the overhang of the sides of the wagon relative to the solebars is visually too little.
It gets worse - the Slaters axle guard units I was planning to use turn out to be too narrow. Combined with the solebars being too far apart, this would leave a huge gap between the back of the solebar and the front of the axle guard, which in turn would make it impossible to get the axle boxes and springs to sit correctly. You will appreciate that there has been quite a lot of dark mutterings to be heard at Chateau Magmouse...
So, right now, I am reviewing various options to resolve these issues. A small amount of progress has been made in the shape of two new headstocks, to replace the kit ones which have an unwanted etched line down the middle, the buffers and couplings at the wrong height and no top flange:
The small holes are for 0.6mm wire to represent the rivets that attach the corner plate connecting the headstock to the solebar on the prototype.
One curiosity that has emerged from studying the photos and the drawing relates to the buffers. At first glance, these seem to be standard wagon buffers of the period. However, the drawing shows the cast guides have a packing piece between them and the headstock. The overall length of the buffer is still the usual 1'6", but the guide is effectively longer, with less of the head protruding out. The drawing shows why - with its packing piece, the guide sticks out a tiny bit beyond the ramp extensions that go over the buffers to allow a road vehicle to be end loaded. This means that if the buffer is fully compressed - say in a rough shunt - the back of the head hits the guide before it hits the ramp extension. Without the packing piece, a full compression of the buffer would result in damage to the ramp.
Happily, all this can be nicely represented with a combination of Peco GWR sprung buffers, and plastic moulded buffer bases from Slaters, left over from one of their GWR wagon kits:
That's progress of a kind, I suppose...
Nick.
This is party because I was away the week before last for work, and I've been busy with other things, but also... every time I decide to do a bit of this kit, I find something else wrong with it. This morning's irritation is the discover that the solebars are too far apart, and the flange on the bottom of the solebars is too deep. The result is the overhang of the sides of the wagon relative to the solebars is visually too little.
It gets worse - the Slaters axle guard units I was planning to use turn out to be too narrow. Combined with the solebars being too far apart, this would leave a huge gap between the back of the solebar and the front of the axle guard, which in turn would make it impossible to get the axle boxes and springs to sit correctly. You will appreciate that there has been quite a lot of dark mutterings to be heard at Chateau Magmouse...
So, right now, I am reviewing various options to resolve these issues. A small amount of progress has been made in the shape of two new headstocks, to replace the kit ones which have an unwanted etched line down the middle, the buffers and couplings at the wrong height and no top flange:
The small holes are for 0.6mm wire to represent the rivets that attach the corner plate connecting the headstock to the solebar on the prototype.
One curiosity that has emerged from studying the photos and the drawing relates to the buffers. At first glance, these seem to be standard wagon buffers of the period. However, the drawing shows the cast guides have a packing piece between them and the headstock. The overall length of the buffer is still the usual 1'6", but the guide is effectively longer, with less of the head protruding out. The drawing shows why - with its packing piece, the guide sticks out a tiny bit beyond the ramp extensions that go over the buffers to allow a road vehicle to be end loaded. This means that if the buffer is fully compressed - say in a rough shunt - the back of the head hits the guide before it hits the ramp extension. Without the packing piece, a full compression of the buffer would result in damage to the ramp.
Happily, all this can be nicely represented with a combination of Peco GWR sprung buffers, and plastic moulded buffer bases from Slaters, left over from one of their GWR wagon kits:
That's progress of a kind, I suppose...
Nick.
Tony Overton
Western Thunderer
I can see this is a devil of a kit to build - being polite here.
Your views on why the prototype seems to have been built the way it was are very helpful. These details are often overlooked.
Tony
RichardG
Western Thunderer
If the kit was marketed as a "GWR-style flat wagon" then the build would be fairly straightforward. A beginner would struggle with soldering the tops of the curb rails, but the other parts all seem to fit together.
The troubles begin when you get sight of the GA. I have accepted more of the kit's compromises than Nick has, and so we will end up with two different models. I suppose, this will reflect ourselves as different modellers.
Nick is sending me his unwanted spring/axlebox castings because I have broken all four of mine trying to be too clever.
Solebars (Nick)
magmouse
Western Thunderer
So - the bullet has been bitten. I‘ve filed off the tabs that locate the solebars on the floor, so I can reposition them about a millimetre further inboard. I have also reduced the depth of the bottom flange on the solebars.
I won’t be the first to point out that often the hardest part of a particular operation to shape material is working out how to hold it. In this case, I had that problem, and the question of how to file an equal amount off the flange along the length of the solebar. I solved both these problems with this - a piece of aluminium sheet screwed to a piece of wood:
The solebar was trapped between the aluminium and the wood, as you can just see along the far edge. The second solebar is sitting loose on top so you can see the orientation.
The wood was clamped to the bench, so the piece was solidly supported for filing. The thickness of the aluminium was just right so I could file the solebar flange down to the level of the aluminium and get a consistent flange thickness:
And here we are - you can see how over-sized the flanges were originally:
I suspect the kit designer deliberately made the flanges over-sized, to make them easier to fold. Even with bending bars, scale flanges would be very tricky to fold.
Onwards and upwards…
Nick.
I won’t be the first to point out that often the hardest part of a particular operation to shape material is working out how to hold it. In this case, I had that problem, and the question of how to file an equal amount off the flange along the length of the solebar. I solved both these problems with this - a piece of aluminium sheet screwed to a piece of wood:
The solebar was trapped between the aluminium and the wood, as you can just see along the far edge. The second solebar is sitting loose on top so you can see the orientation.
The wood was clamped to the bench, so the piece was solidly supported for filing. The thickness of the aluminium was just right so I could file the solebar flange down to the level of the aluminium and get a consistent flange thickness:
And here we are - you can see how over-sized the flanges were originally:
I suspect the kit designer deliberately made the flanges over-sized, to make them easier to fold. Even with bending bars, scale flanges would be very tricky to fold.
Onwards and upwards…
Nick.
Tony Overton
Western Thunderer
Keep going Nick, keep fighting the dragon, you'll get there in the end.
magmouse
Western Thunderer
Thanks, Tony - it’s been nice to (a) make a decision about how to proceed, and (b) do something other than (mentally) throw out more and more bits of the kit. Next up, I think, the new floor, to be cut from 8 thou nickel silver,
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Rather like the content of the book / movie "How to tame a dragon".