A Tale of Two Serpents

magmouse

Western Thunderer
I'm a couple of steps further on - I've bent up new support brackets for the ramp extensions, using 0.5 x 1.5mm brass strip, and a 3D printed jig.

Step 1:

IMG_6909.jpeg

Step 2:

IMG_6910.jpeg

I soldered the part together where the strip meets itself, and cut the surplus off, ready for the next one. The radius of the bends is really a bit too large, despite annealing the brass to soften it - there's a limit to how tight it wants to bend. The 0.5 thickness is to scale, however. I experimented with filing a triangular groove across the strip at the bend points, but then I got a bend with almost zero radius. I decided the oversized curve was my preferred compromise.

Having made eight, I discovered all but one was slightly too large on one side, so I had to unsolder them, re-bend a corner to tighten it us a little, re-solder and trim the end. All in all, a bit of a faff, and probably a good two hours work, including drawing up the jig - all for eight of these:

IMG_6911.jpeg

My thoughts then turned to positioning the brackets. The need to fit snuggly either side of the buffers guide base, and I don't want to fit the buffers until after painting, as they'll get in the way of painting the ramps and brackets. So, to position the brackets, I've printed another jig:

IMG_6914.jpeg

The pin goes in the hole in the headstock where the buffer will fit, and the block defines where the brackets should sit:

IMG_6913.jpeg

I haven't yet fitted the brackets - I'm nervous that if I try soldering them, the joint in the bracket will come undone, and they will spring open slightly. I used 188 solder on the brackets, so I could use 145 to attach them, which might work, but the headstock and everything attached to it make for a substantial heatsink. The alternative is to glue them on with epoxy once all the soldering work is done.

So, with the thought of finishing the soldering work, I attached the triangular plates under the corners. Of course, having moved the solebars in by 0.5mm, and reduced the size of the bottom flange of the solebars, the angle of the etched plates in the kit was wrong, so that needed adapting. Once soldered on, I filed the plates thinner, closer to the scale thickness:

IMG_6916.jpeg

IMG_6917.jpeg

I can't quite believe how long it's taken me to prepare 12 parts and attach 4 of them. This wagon is a complete time sink....

Anyway - onwards!

Nick.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
It may be a time sink, but it's going to look excellent once completed....
What Chris has said is the nub of the matter, you are going to have a fine-looking wagon although you and most of WT are going to be aware of deficiencies.... and at what cost? Just thinking here:-

* how long would you take the second time around for that time difference represents the price of experience;
* how long would you take to build the model from scratch?

Rgds, Graham
 
New brackets for ramp extensions (Nick) New

magmouse

Western Thunderer
What Chris has said is the nub of the matter, you are going to have a fine-looking wagon although you and most of WT are going to be aware of deficiencies.... and at what cost? Just thinking here:-

* how long would you take the second time around for that time difference represents the price of experience;
* how long would you take to build the model from scratch?

Rgds, Graham

Second time round would be quicker, of course, but there is still a lot of process work that would need doing, even if I knew exactly what to do. A scratch built wagon could of course rectify many of the deficiencies this one will have - though the best thing if one were determined to get a really good model would be to create one's own etching. That could limit the errors in the overall height to 12 thou (the difference between the floor thickness of the prototype and the kit material, assuming 0.5mm brass) and fix the issues with headstocks, axle guards, size of holes in the sides, position of holes in the top of the sides, etc. Combined with 3D parts and a laser cut floor, this could result in a truly excellent model, and easier than a traditional scratch build. Anyone want a dozen of these???

And in related news, talking of it being quicker second time round - I looked at the brass brackets I made over the weekend and decided they were too chunky and the corner radius was too much. It took me less than an hour to draw and print some -

IMG_6918.jpeg

You know what they say - hindsight is a wonderful thing...

Nick.
 

Tony Overton

Western Thunderer
What Chris has said is the nub of the matter, you are going to have a fine-looking wagon although you and most of WT are going to be aware of deficiencies.... and at what cost? Just thinking here:-

* how long would you take the second time around for that time difference represents the price of experience;
* how long would you take to build the model from scratch?

Rgds, Graham
Whilst I'm impressed with what Nick has achieved, having seen the issues he has been faced with I personally would not want to attempt to build this particular kit. I would scratch build one, less heart ache.
I wonder how many others having read Nick's posts will avoid this kit.
Tony
 

RichardG

Western Thunderer
Shh! I'm about to advertise my unstarted one on the Guild Member Sales pages. No point doing it on WT!
Dave

I sold my part-built model on eBay. The listing managed 68 views, 10 watchers and one bid. So there is a market out there, well a market of sorts. I don't use Guild classifieds since someone bought a model from me and then deluged me with inconsequential emails and WhatsApp messages. I unpacked the thing twice before I got it in the post. eBay shields you from the worst of these excesses, and if you get more than one bidder then you might even get your money back.
 

magmouse

Western Thunderer
Whilst I'm impressed with what Nick has achieved, having seen the issues he has been faced with I personally would not want to attempt to build this particular kit. I would scratch build one, less heart ache.

Yes - I don't think I would have bought the kit knowing what I do now. Equally, it's not an easy scratch-build. The earlier diagram G8, of wooden construction, would be a lot easier, I think. Not sure if there is a drawing of this - there's just a "diagram" type drawing in ABT's GWR Wagons, and a photo here where the nearest tow wagons are I think the same type:

acco-containers-on-railway_med_hr-2.jpg


Nick.
 

RichardG

Western Thunderer
The earlier diagram G8, of wooden construction, would be a lot easier, I think. Not sure if there is a drawing of this - there's just a "diagram" type drawing in ABT's GWR Wagons, and a photo here where the nearest tow wagons are I think the same type:

Wasn't the railway wonderfully clean in those days? All of the lettering on the wagons would be legible to people who needed to read it. Compare with today's intermodal trains, where the container flats are a uniform shade of brown over every surface. I imagine, the difference is mileage, speed and braking systems. It's hard to imagine wagons being cleaned, even in pre-grouping times.

The photo shows a board placed across the headstock, hinged to allow access. Perhaps this influenced the person who drew the headstocks for the G9 kit.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I suspect another key difference is the cost of labour.

That said, I’m quite sure the stationmaster would have his staff scrubbing things if they hadn’t more important, or urgent, things to do. Must keep up appearances, can’t have anyone thinking that any other railway is as good as ours…
 
( examples of silver soldered brackets for future reference ) New

adrian

Flying Squad
I haven't yet fitted the brackets - I'm nervous that if I try soldering them, the joint in the bracket will come undone, and they will spring open slightly. I used 188 solder on the brackets, so I could use 145 to attach them, which might work, but the headstock and everything attached to it make for a substantial heatsink. The alternative is to glue them on with epoxy once all the soldering work is done.
For future reference another option would have been to silver solder the brackets - so no problem soft soldering them to the body. These are the footplate brackets I've been making for my Precursor tank. All silver soldered so I can spend as long as I want geting the positioning correct when soldering onto the chassis.
silverSolder - 1.jpeg
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I have an offcut of a marble tile (with some holes drilled in it), a chef‘s blowlamp, and a syringe of premix flux & solder paste from Cookson Gold, at @adrian suggestion. Don’t use it much but it’s handy to have.

in very simplistic terms the knowledge is “a close fit”, and “heat it ‘til it flashes in one go”.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Yes, that’s a good thought. I don’t currently have either the kit or the knowledge to do silver soldering, but both might be acquired in the future.
At some point I think I'll have to make a little demo video, it's not difficult any anyone who's built etched kits will have plenty of sparecomponents to practice on. As for the equipment, very little is required, if you don't already have it then certain it can be acquired for less than the cost of one wagon kit.
 

76043

Western Thunderer
Did the railways ever clean wagons? What do we know about this? I read recently in one of the wagon books I have that they never were.
Tony
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
Did the railways ever clean wagons? What do we know about this? I read recently in one of the wagon books I have that they never were.
Tony

Almost never. Cattle wagons, for obvious reasons (and that they were mandated to do so), and vehicles in certain sorts of mineral traffic. Cleaning though, simply meant getting rid of most traces of the previous loads. Making numbers visible again certainly seems to have happened, but that was for operational reasons.

Adam
 
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