Modelling Display At G1mra Agm

[Simon]

Please could the assembled company critique this proposed textual accompaniment to a display of modelling to be put on at the next G1MRA agm meeting.

Many thanks for any/all comments.

Gauge One Modelling Display

This display is intended to show a more “modelled approach” to Gauge One than is currently the norm within G1MRA and seeks to address the question of how G1MRA can attract more new long term members.

Some observations:

· A large pool of potential G1MRA recruits exists amongst those railway modellers currently active in the smaller scales, most notably within 4mm and 7mm scales.

· Those most likely to consider moving up to Gauge One from this “pool” will be relatively experienced modellers who will be used to a high level of prototype fidelity. They will see Gauge One as an opportunity to create more impressive models and model railways and will probably not be initially attracted by the live steam possibilities of Gauge One.

An Assertion:

As presently constituted and perceived, G1MRA does not appeal to this particular audience of potential recruits.

Why do we say this?

A Quick Analysis of G1MRA right now:

Strengths

· Live steam practitioners “par excellence”.

· Vast experience of garden railways.

· Strong “social scene” of shared running and experience.

Weaknesses

· Majority choice of less attractive scale in 10mm. 1/32 better matches “our” gauge.

· “Broad Church” approach seeks to satisfy disparate and conflicting approaches.

· Track standard is flawed. Chosen for sound reasons in 1947 but by the 21st Century is looking dated and is perceived as “coarse” by most small scale modellers.

What can we do about this?

Simple! Encourage the growth of a more “modelled” approach to Gauge One within G1MRA by those that are interested. Promote and publish results in Newsletter and Model Press.

How might we encourage this “more modelled approach”?

· A modelling competition or competitions.

· Different classes to encourage participation and a wide range of entries.

· Here are some suggestions of ours.

· What do you think?

Simon

 

[Dikitriki]

Under the last section, I would have thought regular 'fine-scale' articles to be actively sought/encouraged in the house magazine.

Richard

 

[Neil]

Bugger, just lost a long reply. The condensed version is as follows:

'Modelled approach', Colonel Blimp will argue that his gauge one live steam is modelled. I suggest an upfront statement that Gauge one is the natural meeting place of model making and miniature engineering and that you approach the discipline from the direction of small scale model making, with all the attendant sensibilities that implies. Drawing a clear boundary seems important.

Broad church bad? I notice that later on you suggest that G1MRA embrace 1:32 modelling; which one is it to be old chap.

Modelling competition? Found the tinsnips yet?

 

[28ten]

Bugger, just lost a long reply. The condensed version is as follows:

'Modelled approach', Colonel Blimp will argue that his gauge one live steam is modelled. I suggest an upfront statement that Gauge one is the natural meeting place of model making and miniature engineering and that you approach the discipline from the direction of small scale model making, with all the attendant sensibilities that implies. Drawing a clear boundary seems important.

Broad church bad? I notice that later on you suggest that G1MRA embrace 1:32 modelling; which one is it to be old chap.

Modelling competition? Found the tinsnips yet?

Bit like trying to mix oil and water?
Much as I admire Simons attempts to invoke change, I do wonder if it is just

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Broad church bad? I notice that later on you suggest that G1MRA embrace 1:32 modelling; which one is it to be old chap.

I think also, it preaches to the converted, and the unconverted are simply not interested because they are too busy enjoying their own brand of the hobby.

I think you can simply say, "Gauge 1 is not just about trains, but also about modelling the railway and its environs." But it needs to be backed up with a variety of finescale models from a variety of G1MRA members.

Anything beyond that will simply be ignored, or viewed as antagonistic.

 

[Pugsley]

Bit like trying to mix oil and water?
Much as I admire Simons attempts to invoke change, I do wonder if it is just

Perhaps Simon is the necessary emulsifier!

I, too, don't think the words 'modelled approach' are quite right, but can't think of anything better at this time of the morning. I'll ponder it over the day.

 

[Simon]

I think also, it preaches to the converted, and the unconverted are simply not interested because they are too busy enjoying their own brand of the hobby.

I think you can simply say, "Gauge 1 is not just about trains, but also about modelling the railway and its environs." But it needs to be backed up with a variety of finescale models from a variety of G1MRA members.

Anything beyond that will simply be ignored, or viewed as antagonistic.

But that's the whole point dear boy (do keep up) the text accompanies a big display of what it talks about (including some live steam projects) produced by more than one member of G1MRA.

Thanks for the comments so far, I think I will add a "preface line" along that which Neil suggests.

As far as "a more modelled approach" goes, I agree that it's clunky but am trying to avoid "Finescale" as this gets right up people's noses before reading any further.

As far as bravery goes, if this doesn't "work" at some perceivable level then I'll be leaving G1MRA to go its own sweet way without any future input from me , so this may well be my last sortie into the land of tweed and methylated spirits

Bombadier Castens

 

[Old Buffer]

Simon,
Forgive me if I’m wrong but didn’t G1 start life as 1/32 scale, and for some reason it went to 10mm. If that is the case all you are wanting to happen is for the scale to return to the basic embryo.
The wording "a more modelled approach" seems to imply the way in which most of the members model, (as in, more people model in 10mm than 1/32), would it not appear better as "a more true to scale approach".
Sorry to poke my nose in, but I think you are right in what you are trying to achieve.
Alan

 

[John D]

Encourage the growth of a more “modelled” approach to Gauge One within G1MRA by those that are interested

Best of luck with this , from experience trying to sell (at the time) 10mm scale kits for my Crewe Goods, Crewe Goods tank, NER Y8 and LMS/BR 3F tank at G1MRA events .....they looked at them , 'They're nice' and walked off to play high speed roundy-roundys with their meths powered pot boilers. Of the Crewe Goods 2-4-0 types, I sold more at Gauge O Guild events 'cos they were more into etched brass kits and wanted to build something a bit bigger.........

 

[John D]

Don't get me started on G1MRA BUT....to give you an idea of what you're up against ...to them an electric powered loco means stud contact pick-up, 3-rail (Noah had this in the ark) ....the majority cannot understand 2-rail operation...I had a stand at one of their AGM's and they appeared....a couple of 'Blimps'....looked at my NER Y8 0-4-0, picked the completed loco up looked at it from all angles then one of them asks....'can you fit a skate (pick-up) to this?' .......'I suppose' says I 'but it's only a small loco , how longs the skate?'......'6 inches and half an inch wide' says he .......the freakin' loco's barely 7 inches long over the buffers so you can imagine what the end result would have looked like........they went away

 

[Simon Dunkley]

But that's the whole point dear boy (do keep up) the text accompanies a big display of what it talks about (including some live steam projects) produced by more than one member of G1MRA.

The word "big" was missing from your initial description, as indeed was the fact that it included some live steam projects produced by more than one member of G1MRA - hard to keep up with things that aren't there!

I think the whole thing is too wordy, and something like Neil's suggestion - which is something you and I have talked about so often, and which I paraphrase, plagiarise and freely adapt below - is all you need:

Gauge One is the natural meeting place of model making and miniature engineering and it is possible to approach it from the direction of small scale model making, with a different form of realism in mind: close to scale appearance, rather than prototypical propulsion. This broadens the appeal of Gauge One, making it truly a "broad church" which can, at its peak, accommodate both approaches without the need for significant compromise.

 

[Simon]

The word "big" was missing from your initial description, as indeed was the fact that it included some live steam projects produced by more than one member of G1MRA - hard to keep up with things that aren't there!

I think the whole thing is too wordy, and something like Neil's suggestion - which is something you and I have talked about so often, and which I paraphrase, plagiarise and freely adapt below - is all you need:

Gauge One is the natural meeting place of model making and miniature engineering and it is possible to approach it from the direction of small scale model making, with a different form of realism in mind: close to scale appearance, rather than prototypical propulsion. This broadens the appeal of Gauge One, making it truly a "broad church" which can, at its peak, accommodate both approaches without the need for significant compromise.

No that's no good Simon, in the first instance it doesn't lead into the modelling competition and in the second instance its too "around the houses". The idea is to get some response and action, after 12 years in G1MRA I've had enough of sitting around and being a "jolly good chap" and as for the chuffing "Broad Church" - let's not go there, as the young people say

Simon

 

[Buckjumper]

...and as for the chuffing "Broad Church" - let's not go there, as the young people say

Is the 'chuffing broad church' stud contact or meths fired?

 

[Phill Dyson]

Sounds to me like forming your own 1/32 group might be more fruitful

 

[28ten]

Go Simon, Go Simon, Go Simon as the youngsters say
How about ' Stop playing with smelly toys and build something finescale' thats straight to the point......
Seriously, I cant help but feel Johns second post says it all. Also does the 1/32 community really want to 'get into bed' with G1MRA? who needs who the most?

 

[Simon Dunkley]

No that's no good Simon, in the first instance it doesn't lead into the modelling competition and in the second instance its too "around the houses".

In the first instance, they won't get that far with your proposed text: it is too wordy.
In the second instance, it is less likely to cause offence: this is how they work.
Sorry, but you wanted feedback, so rather than pick apart people's responses, you might try thanking them for taking the time and making the effort to provide you with what you asked for.

The idea is to get some response and action, after 12 years in G1MRA I've had enough of sitting around and being a "jolly good chap"

When I first met you, I was all for creating a new group, but you wanted to get it accommodated within G1MRA. Heeding your wisdom, I took your suggestion about biding time to see if G1MRA could be persuaded to move forward, and it has to be said, after 12 years, do you not think it is time to stop sitting around on the fence, and do something?

I gave up on G1MRA many years ago when I was told that the committee member who was tasked with looking at the track standards had been given my name by many people for suggestions to improve the G1MRA "fine" standard (it doesn't need much), but didn't bother to contact me. It was obvious that there was no interest in setting better, or even appropriate, standards.

and as for the chuffing "Broad Church" - let's not go there, as the young people say

Again, as you seem to be wilfully ignoring, the idea of using that admittedly awful phrase was to get them on your side, not against you.

If you want there to be a modelling competition, why not sponsor one, for the "the Titfield Thunderbolt award for the most realistic 1:32 model" or some such? You could even be the judge of it, so avoiding any criticisms of bias in it.

Either way, with that or the formation of a new group (or both), crap or get off the pot.

 

[Buckjumper]

Also does the 1/32 community really want to 'get into bed' with G1MRA? who needs who the most?

Cynric's point is well made. The likelihood that I'll ever rejoin G1MRA so low it's off the radar. Even if 1/32 is 'tolerated' by the majority (which for now is more likely than 'accepted'), it's still going to be a long hard uphill slog, with a lot of Journals filled with 150MPH live steam 10mm shrubbery roundy-roundys before you get a reasonable slice of the pie.

FWIW, I've had some email correspondence with Chris Ludlow, the new chairman of G1MRA, who contacted me as he would very much like to see an article on the old Manvers wagon (yeah, I know, it's already over-exposed) in the Journal, but is understandably cautious as I'm no longer on the membership list and that might lead to raised eyebrows from various quarters. But how much 'modelling' would the editor, or the membership really like to see?

If you do go for it you appear to have some support within the upper echelons, but crucially, is it enough?

 

[ceejaydee]

Thinking back to how major editing occurred to posts over on the G1MRA forum when then aforementioned chairman and his trade relations officer didn't like what was being said and how they attempted to chastise those with their own views as they didn't fit within the G1MRA framework; I am wondering if that organisation it is a lost cause for scale 1/32 scale modelling given current thinking of the majority.

I got a little peeved when an innocent post made by me around the current cost of entry into G1 was seen as a snipe at certain suppliers; other people made similar and possibly better informed observations maybe based on fact whereas I made mine innocently from a layman point of view.
Whilst I get the feeling that there may have been undercurrents of old battles being fought in a new way during that particular discussion I don't really take kindly to having my posts edited for no apparent reason and I have little tolerance for the hierarchical kind of behaviour exhibited by certain people - chairman of a hobby organisation or not.
So whilst possibly my observations here are rather OT in relation to the original post, what I am getting at is that I am personally coming to the conclusion that G1MRA is a lost cause for anything other than what they currently do at the present time; for me being tolerated is just not good enough.

Pity as I did want to build that 'Project' type loco albeit altered to a more scale outline and hoped that they would sit well alongside other models in my collection although I wouldn't necessarily expect to run them together.
As has been said before though there is life for those interested in G1 outside G1MRA.

I admire your persistence Simon and it is a valiant effort to broaden the outlook of the old boys club but I'd agree that the mention of 'Finescale' or '2 Rail' will have most of the duffers choking on their mid morning tipple and crying for their valets; indeed use of the term DCC may well see them attempt to burn you at the stake.

 

[Simon]

Truth be told, I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the formation of a "ScaleOne Society" (working title) is the way forward.

That said, there is more readiness (certainly at the top) to contemplate change within G1MRA than ever before. I like Chris Ludlow and think he is an intelligent and thoughtful chap (as further evidenced by Adrian's post above) who is genuinely open to moving things on.

By the way, the main driving force behind the competition idea is not me, so it's no good telling me to "crap or get off the pot" Dunkley you old rapskallion as there are more people involved in this display jobbie (geddit?) than just myself.

I think Cynric actually hits a nail very firmly on the head with the who needs who thing, which is kind of what I'm trying to get at.

From my point of view I am also bearing in mind that this display and whatever wording eventually gets used may in hindsight be viewed as the precursor to the formation of another group. On this basis I want it to be some sort of "manifesto" for any such future group.

Any talk of "being on anyone's side" rather misses the point - the display will hopefully stimulate a discussion which will go on after the event and lead to some action. If people haven't got the wit or will to participate then that's their business and loss - not mine.

Simon

 

[28ten]

Simon, I fully understand why you want to do things within the existing framework, and I think you have gone the 'extra mile' to try and get them on board, but are 1/32 finescale modellers going to join G1MRA even if you do succeed? would anybody here join? I suspect it would be a marriage in name only. (ill leave the consumation jokes to someone else )

Adrian, I was going to say hasnt everybody seen and read about your excellent wagon, but then I realised we are talking about G1MRA, they wouldnt have read MRJ, etc...... which says everything.