Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Thank you Graham @Dog Star , Paul @hrmspaul (and yes, a reproduction of the Jim Crow in model form would make a great talking point), Barry @Barry37 , John @John Palmer , Simon @simond and Tim @Tim Birch for the info about Jim Crows and jimmies. Every day is a school day...

Then, on the wagonry front thanks to Paul @hrmspaul , Barry @Barry37 and John @John Palmer - also for additional info about the NPCS.

An unusual viewpoint of Stanier 2-6-4T 42588 at Willesden High Level on 13th April 1962 from the long demolished main line station. I’m wondering whether this could be a year earlier though, as the loco was allocated to Kentish Town from May 1960 but in September 1961 was transferred to Nottingham where it was withdrawn in October 1964. (SLS). On 15th November 1964 the loco was seen at Crewe South MPD ostensibly awaiting works but it was then scrapped at the works (SLS) in December 1964. (BR Database).



A fitted freight at Willesden Junction said to be 13th April 1962 but following the previous post possibly a year earlier. The loco was allocated to Springs Branch, Wigan in November 1959, Preston in April/May, Llandudno Junction in June and Edge Hill in November 1961, then Carnforth in June 1962, Barrow in Furness in March and Carlisle Upperby in October 1965 and finally Carlisle Kingmoor in December 1966 where it was withdrawn in April 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped in July 1967 (BR Database) at McWilliams, Shettleston. (WHTS).



Previously in post #1763 is Royal Scot 46146 The Rifle Brigade here light engine at Euston on 14th April 1962 or perhaps a year or so earlier. By now it was a Willesden loco where it was allocated January/February 1961 with not long to go as it was withdrawn at the beginning of December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in March 1963. (Rail UK).



King 6026 King John awaiting departure at Paddington on the Intercity on 14th April 1962. However, that’s another date we must question as it was also photographed on the up Cambrian Coast Express at Saunderton on the same day so we should consider this photo as a year or so earlier than proposed. Seen previously in posts #1810 and #2597 6026 King John was an Old Oak Common engine from February 1960 withdrawn in September 1962, (SLS) thence to Swindon Works where it was scrapped by the end of 1963. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Dog Star]

King 6026 King John awaiting departure at Paddington on the Intercity on 14th April 1962. However, that’s another date we must question as it was also photographed on the up Cambrian Coast Express at Saunderton on the same day so we should consider this photo as a year or so earlier than proposed. Seen previously in posts #1810 and #2597 6026 King John was an Old Oak Common engine from February 1960 withdrawn in September 1962, (SLS) thence to Swindon Works where it was scrapped by the end of 1963. (BR Database).

View attachment 241661

Brian,

The Inter-City was off PDN at 09.10 with an engine change, I believe, at Wolverhampton HL. I think that The Cambrian Coast Express was a morning departure from somewhere west of Shrewsbury. So if the timings were favourable then could a King have worked the down ICE and returned to PDN with the up CCE?

You never know, could Tim have caught the ICE on 14/04/1962 and got off of that train at High Wycombe, then a local bus out towards West Wycombe where a short walk would have taken him to somewhere close to the location of the CCE photo?

Rgds, Graham

 

[Barry37]

Brian,

The Inter-City was off PDN at 09.10 with an engine change, I believe, at Wolverhampton HL. I think that The Cambrian Coast Express was a morning departure from somewhere west of Shrewsbury. So if the timings were favourable then could a King have worked the down ICE and returned to PDN with the up CCE?

You never know, could Tim have caught the ICE on 14/04/1962 and got off of that train at High Wycombe, then a local bus out towards West Wycombe where a short walk would have taken him to somewhere close to the location of the CCE photo?

Rgds, Graham

Kings weren't allowed west of Shrewsbury (in GWR days, anyway). This would affect where a King would take on hauling the CCE, and thus, whether the notional down and up trips were possible.
In BR days (1980s) the loco change on the Shrewsbury – Euston train was done in a rather leisurely fashion at Wolverhampton.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Brian,

A "Jim Crow" is used by PW men to change a curve in a piece of rail.

Your memory of a device to sharpen the exhaust is a reference to a "Jimmy" which was a bar across / within the cap of the blast pipe. Use of such a device on the GWR was said to be a summonable offence leading to looking at the carpet in the shed master's office.

I always find it fascinating how terms and names get used or even taken from other meanings, for instance in my time in the building trade when we would use a crow bar to inch an RSJ into position the guys would use the term "to jimmy it ".
Col.

 

[simond]

But the pointed metal spike that you used to align the bolt holes in said RSJ was surely ”a podger“

 

[Osgood]

So you can jimmy it with a podger

 

[Eastsidepilot]

So you can jimmy it with a podger

Rodger dodge !

 

[oldravendale]

Your description of how Tim could have seen the same loco twice on two trains on the same day Graham @Dog Star describes the sort of trick Tim would get up to! However in this case the photo of King John was from the same negative strip as the photos which precede it so it's likely to be contemporaneous with the earlier photos. Thanks for the further detail too, Barry @Barry37 .

Then thanks for the description of a further use of "jimmy", Col @Eastsidepilot and after the mention of "podger" @Simon D. the conversation quickly reached the realms of silliness. Please keep it up, chaps.

The first two here are fogged but in the normal fashion I'm sure someone will find a hidden gem...

A4 60022 Mallard at Kings Cross on a date around 1960 but see the comments around img145 below which make a date of 1958/1959 more likely. We’ve seen the loco a few times previously and quite recently in posts #3517 and #4215. It was a Kings Cross engine from April 1948 being withdrawn from there in April 1963. (SLS). Its life thereafter is well documented elsewhere. See: 60022 Mallard (LNER 4468, LNER 607, LNER 22, BR E22 & BR 60022)

​

A4 60033 Seagull, last in posts #1559 and #5042 is here at Kings Cross around 1960 but again note the comments about the N2 below. The A4 spent some time at Grantham (I have nothing about allocations before 1948) but in March of that year moved to Kings Cross where it stayed until withdrawal in December 1962. (BR Database & SLS). It was scrapped by the end of January 1963 at Doncaster Works. (BR Database). Details about Mallard are in the post above.



V2 60906 clearly sporting a 35A New England shed plate at Kings Cross at some time around 1960 - again probably a year or so earlier. This loco had been allocated to New England (in that state where else?) since January 1959 and was withdrawn in May 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works a month later. (BR Database). This loco previously featured in post #4083.



N2 0-6-2T 69555 at Kings Cross in approximately 1960 but see date details below. The loco was allocated to Hornsey from April 1957 and was withdrawn on 6th April 1959 (SLS) which must make this photo and others on this same negative strip before that date. It was scrapped at Doncaster (RO). WHTS agrees with the withdrawal date.



Brian

 

[simond]

Then thanks for the description of a further use of "jimmy", Col @Eastsidepilot and after the mention of "podger" @Simon D. the conversation quickly reached the realms of silliness. Please keep it up, chaps.

Being called silly? I resemble that remark!

for the un-initiated, I'm not talking scrabble either!

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/hand-tools/spanners/single-end-open-end-podger-spanner-24mm-metric/p/KEN5808530K

 

[Roger Pound]

But the pointed metal spike that you used to align the bolt holes in said RSJ was surely ”a podger“

I have a recollection from my Meccano days (some eighty years back), of a part which was a pointed rod and catalogued as a 'drift'. It was for aligning the pre-formed holes in the components so that they could be joined together. Perhaps a poor relation of the various items described....

Just an old chap's reflections.......... .

Roger

 

[Genghis]

I have a recollection from my Meccano days (some eighty years back), of a part which was a pointed rod and catalogued as a 'drift'. It was for aligning the pre-formed holes in the components so that they could be joined together. Perhaps a poor relation of the various items described....

Just an old chap's reflections.......... .

Roger

You're obviously an old podger...............

David

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

I have a recollection from my Meccano days (some eighty years back), of a part which was a pointed rod and catalogued as a 'drift'. It was for aligning the pre-formed holes in the components so that they could be joined together. Perhaps a poor relation of the various items described....

Just an old chap's reflections.......... .

Roger

I remember that as a 'Goesinty' not to be confused with the 'Disnaygointy' which had a parallel end.

Ian.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I remember that as a 'Goesinty' not to be confused with the 'Disnaygointy' which had a parallel end.

Ian.

Sounds a bit like the box of slot headed wood screws, but every now and again you'd get one that was mis-machined without a slot, these were designated wouldn't screws !

 

[mickoo]

Sounds a bit like the box of slot headed wood screws, but every now and again you'd get one that was mis-machined without a slot, these were designated wouldn't screws !

We called those threaded nails.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all for keeping the podger/dodger/todger/jimmy conversation going. This thread badly needs the occasional shot of levity.

This loco was in posts #3572 and #5034. It’s V2 60821 at Kings Cross at some time around 1960 but see the notes about the N2 above. The loco had been New England based since December 1958 where it was withdrawn in December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works in May 1963. (BR Database).



Another photo which confirms the date as before mid-1959 rather than 1960 is this one of B2 61614 Castle Hedingham and V2 60821 (details above) at Kings Cross. The B2 was a Cambridge engine from October/November 1956 and was withdrawn in June 1959. (SLS). BR Database proposes it was scrapped in the month of withdrawal but the Railway Observer that it was seen intact at Stratford on 1oth November 1959.



61XX 2-6-2T 6128 on an up trip or pick up freight near Saunderton on 14th April 1962. At the time it was a Slough engine where it had been allocated in March 1962, moving to Gloucester Horton Road in May and Southall in October/November before returning to Gloucester Horton Road in December 1964 being withdrawn in April 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in August 1965 (BR Database) at Hayes Bridgend (WHTS) where it was observed on 13th June 1965. (RO).



WD 2-8-0 90516 on a down freight near Saunderton on 14th April 1962. It was a Woodford Halse loco from February 1958, then Toton in January, Newton Heath in April/May and Aintree in September 1964 followed by Frodingham in April and Doncaster in October/November 1965 where it was withdrawn within the next couple of weeks. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1966 at Garnham, Harris and Elton, Chesterfield. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

Sounds a bit like the box of slot headed wood screws, but every now and again you'd get one that was mis-machined without a slot, these were designated wouldn't screws !

If you got frustrated and threw one of these at someone would it become a Screws Missile.........?

Roger .

 

[Osgood]

If you got frustrated and threw one of these at someone would it become a Screws Missile.........?

Roger .

 

[RonnieS]

You're obviously an old podger...............

David

Easy enough to model

 

[Dog Star]

Brian,

Could Tim have taken two cameras on his trips in the early 1960s?

 

[GreenAyre42]

The 'jimmy' in my area was a 'jemmy'.


David