farnetti
Western Thunderer
Daifly,
I'm glad you have enjoyed it and it very helpful to have a manufacturer so willing to participate.
I will be starting one of MMPs' BR 16 ton mineral wagons next on a new thread very soon.
Ken
7mm MMP LMS 13 ton Mineral Wagon
- Thread starter farnetti
- Start date
Daifly,
I'm glad you have enjoyed it and it very helpful to have a manufacturer so willing to participate.
I will be starting one of MMPs' BR 16 ton mineral wagons next on a new thread very soon.
Ken
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Brake gear, linkage, pull rods, levers, and sundries fitted. By my count another 14 items to go until it is finished ready for cleaning and undercoat. Still not sure about the ultrasonic cleaner, seen a thread but can't remember where.
This probably won't get finished until next week as off to Suffolk for a long weekend staying with friends and watching the Maverick music festival.
This probably won't get finished until next week as off to Suffolk for a long weekend staying with friends and watching the Maverick music festival.
adrian
Flying Squad
There's thread on here about them as well
http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/putting-ones-foot-in-the-water.3408/#post-89378
Unfortunately there's very few before and after shots on any of the threads so it's difficult to know how much is due to the preparation prior to the cleaning and how much is due to the cleaner itself.
As you may have guessed I still haven't sunk any cash into a cleaner yet - but I keep looking. For 7mm some of the 6.5l cleaners seem allow a 12" tank size big enough for the models I'm building so that's what I'm currently looking at.
farnetti
Western Thunderer
OzzyO and Adrian,
Thanks for the info, at the moment I'm thinking about the JPL 8060 3ltr with a 324mm x 202mm x 97mm tank. While not big enough for a 7mm coach or big diesel in one go it is £104.99 which seems a good price compared to the very big ones.
Ian G,
A lovely thought but I am not that clever, the side and end doors can be easily made to work but not on mine.
Ken
Thanks for the info, at the moment I'm thinking about the JPL 8060 3ltr with a 324mm x 202mm x 97mm tank. While not big enough for a 7mm coach or big diesel in one go it is £104.99 which seems a good price compared to the very big ones.
Ian G,
A lovely thought but I am not that clever, the side and end doors can be easily made to work but not on mine.
Ken
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
I'm not sure where you got the sizes from but one that I just did a quick search for quoted the following sizes. 264mm X 164mm X 80mm.
Some may quote the size of the inside of the basket but say the inside of the tank, the inside dimensions of the basket is the best dimension to have as that really tells you what you can fit in to the M/C. You can use these M/Cs with out the basket but then you have to start getting your hands in to retrieve the parts Etc.
Adrian, mentions how do you know it's clean and it's not all down to all of the prep. work before putting in the cleaner? Maybe some of it just down to trust in that these things are used in the medical profession and jewellery trades to clean things. It's a bit like putting a 'clean' kid in the bath you know it's going to be cleaner when it comes out (but can you see it's any cleaner?)
I think that this may show what can happen using an U/S cleaner, new fluid on the left used fluid on the right,
The one on the right has been used a few times, that is not the grot off one build. It will settle down and all of the big bits will go to the bottom but the fluid will never be as clean as the one on the left as some of the muck (oil, grease Etc.) will be in suspension. To make sure that is removed you just use some fresh warm water in the U/S cleaner.
This was after a set of parts had been grit blasted and had a good wash using Cilit Bang using hot water and then a run in the U/S cleaner, I thought the parts were clean before the U/S cleaner. This is what was left in the cleaning tank!
OzzyO.[/quote]
farnetti
Western Thunderer
[/quote]
Many thanks OzzyO,
I haven't decided quite yet, it seems like the best size for the money. Feedback, as usual, is always gratefully received.
Spoke to my jewelry friend at the Maverick festival this weekend about US cleaners, I got home late to find an e-mail that she bought one today. I'll get some feedback from her before I buy to see how it goes as but hers will be a small one.
Ken
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Reading Ozzy's earlier writings on U/S units, one point which arises is the problem of emptying the unit. I was pleased to see that this model, unlike some seemingly good value machines, has a drain valve - its the little things which can make life that much more tolerable….
And it has a heater.
And it has a heater.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
The underframe looks fantastic. However, I am not so convinced by the body. You have obviously built the kit very well, but in my opinion the laboriously assembled nuts and bolts are over scale and the wagon would look out of place next to other wagons with scale sized nuts. This is unfortunate. I am a fan of the MMP kits for steel wagons but this build has confirmed that the timber wagon body kits won't be on my shopping list in their current form.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
I have to agree with Overseer on both counts.
I am simply blown away by the underframe - I had to go and look at a Slaters 7mm u/frame just to put the photos above into context. If I ever get to the stage of being capable of assembling something like that to the same standard
, I have a great little cameo in mind for just the u/frame.
The body hardware does appear somewhat heavy in the wagon's pristine grey finish - maybe with suitable weathering the effect (possibly exacerbated by the strong shadow in the photos) will be much less apparent?
Edit: Of course what we perceive by our own observation may not be right - it may well be that the fasteners on the body are indeed to scale, and we simply believe them to be overscale by comparison to many other 7mm wagons which might have shallow relief fasteners punched or moulded in.
I am simply blown away by the underframe - I had to go and look at a Slaters 7mm u/frame just to put the photos above into context. If I ever get to the stage of being capable of assembling something like that to the same standard
, I have a great little cameo in mind for just the u/frame.The body hardware does appear somewhat heavy in the wagon's pristine grey finish - maybe with suitable weathering the effect (possibly exacerbated by the strong shadow in the photos) will be much less apparent?
Edit: Of course what we perceive by our own observation may not be right - it may well be that the fasteners on the body are indeed to scale, and we simply believe them to be overscale by comparison to many other 7mm wagons which might have shallow relief fasteners punched or moulded in.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
A Glos. 7 plank 1923 RCH mineral wagon, suggested as being for the LMSR, in the Glos paint shop is shown in The 4mm Coal Wagon (John Hayes, Wild Swan, pg.130), the photograph angle is very similar to the images posted here and that photograph invites comparison.
To my mind the fastenings for the sheeting on the model appear to have greater presence than those of the prototype.
I am impressed by the design of the kit and by the workmanship shown in the completed model.
regards, Graham
To my mind the fastenings for the sheeting on the model appear to have greater presence than those of the prototype.
I am impressed by the design of the kit and by the workmanship shown in the completed model.
regards, Graham
farnetti
Western Thunderer
I did look at replacing the nuts and bolts at the beginning of the build. Eileens Emporium, Squires, Scale Hardware and Prime Miniatures, and no doubt several others supply them. Track pins have been suggested, pins for use in model boat building are another possibility. The thing is that some these are of variable quality and the cost of consistent and concentric bolt heads would be extremely high. I am sure this is why MMP doesn't include them in the kit.
The instructions state quite clearly to use thin superglue for fixing the nuts and bolts. When I started I the kit I only had medium to hand for a while and think this has contibruted to some of the nuts looking a bit oversize.
I think (hope?) Osgood is correct in saying it looks very stark and weathering should tone it all down.
I am looking forward to the BR 16ton wagon and starting on it today.
regards,
Ken
The instructions state quite clearly to use thin superglue for fixing the nuts and bolts. When I started I the kit I only had medium to hand for a while and think this has contibruted to some of the nuts looking a bit oversize.
I think (hope?) Osgood is correct in saying it looks very stark and weathering should tone it all down.
I am looking forward to the BR 16ton wagon and starting on it today.
regards,
Ken
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Ken
It looks great and seems a very enjoyable build, you just need another dozen to go with it.
Richard
It looks great and seems a very enjoyable build, you just need another dozen to go with it.
Richard
ZiderHead
Western Thunderer
Very nice build
It occurs to me that the construction method would allow you to model wagons in various states of distress up to completely derelict just by substituting veneer planks for the brass sides. You could end up with something like this:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foxfield/rch_1907_design_wagons.htm
It occurs to me that the construction method would allow you to model wagons in various states of distress up to completely derelict just by substituting veneer planks for the brass sides. You could end up with something like this:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foxfield/rch_1907_design_wagons.htm
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
I think it looks great Ken 
Well all I've done is to replicate the nut & washer sizes guided by the drawings in the LMS Wagon Plans book and these are the original drawings as you know - so I think you may be making some incorrect assuptions here. I expected flak as I knew they would look very different to the somewhat ill-defined details you see on plastic kits but then I have never [I hope] been the type to just do everything the accepted way. I do not agree that the assembly is that laborious and I think earlier in the thread Ken alluded to the fact that it speeded up [as things do] after the first few pin, washer & nut assemblies - particularly as everything fitted around and onto the pins without any dressing.
The pin [bolt] heads themselves ARE too big - around 30-40% overscale than with the Lace Pins that the kit was actually designed around - but these SS pins are just the nearest we can get with a consistent pin & shank diameter at present. This will change at some point as I will explain.
The main company producing lace pins has produced a faulty batch with wildly differeing head & shank diameters. Until these pass through the hands of the various outlets we will not see another correct batch become available again and this has caused consternation and many complaints among the lace making fraternity [for whom the shank diameter is very important indeed - less so the head size]. We could supply Duchesse pins in the interim but these would add a lot to the kit price and the shanks are way too thin to privide a centering fit into the holes in the wagon body anyway - so the current situation is the best that can currently be offered.
It is strange though as prior to reading your post, I was just thinking how nice and crisp everything looked on the body of the wagon, with every nut clearly defined and of consistent size. To my eye it looks way better that any plastic body and not just because of the nuts - but also the prototypically fitted top capping [not seen in any other kits on the market I think] and the body 'furniture' generally. If he had painted it in natural wood with black strapping as per the photo in the LMS wagon drawings book you would probably not have thought to comment.
Ken has done a good job on the whole assembly.
Anyway - each to his own of course - but I know what I think.
DJP/MMP
