Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
For the record, the layer height was 0.1 and AMS humidity was 6%
The model has definitely printed better in PLA than PETG, there is some banding but generally the iron plates look passable
Support for the flanges is an issue and there is some stringing, probably less than the PETG.
Overall much better, but still not at resin levels of fidelity.
That one is worth painting and heavily weathering as a rust bucket - where the rust has eaten and split the flanges.
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks Martin,
yes, I’m using the baskets and silica granules you kindly recommended.
I have just kicked it off again, overnight, using 0.05, for the 23 pence that it costs it’s probably worth the experiment. I don’t care how long it takes if I don’t have to watch it, but actually, it should only take 5 hours or so.
I don’t particularly want to modify the CAD, I’ve already printed a batch of these wagons using the resin printer, but it would interesting to see if similar results are possible with the FDM, as you say, it’s definitely simpler than resin, and it’s somewhat more robust.
cheers
Simon
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simond
Western Thunderer
Cheers Dave, I think I’d need more inspiration/motivation, but I see where you’re coming from!
Simon
simond
Western Thunderer
Much better but no cigar!
The wagon is pretty much perfect except at one end, quite curious. Subjectively the flat panel finish is less good but the flanges are much better. I guess making them wedge-shaped in section would perhaps improve this without making them look to heavy.
The rivets are mostly not too bad.
I think, if I really wanted to FDM print this wagon I could keep fiddling with settings and I’d get a good enough result, but for now, I’ll leave it.
simond
Western Thunderer
Rob,
Sorry, missed your note yesterday.
No, on its solebars. I’d need to take the corner plates off to do it upside down
Cheers
Simon
Rob R
Western Thunderer
Thanks.
Looking at the finish of the top flange, do you have ironing on "all top surfaces" or just "top surface"?
Would you be willing to share the file so I could have a play on my printer?
Rob
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
Phil O
Western Thunderer
Simon,
Can you do a save as, with a different name and then you can modify it to your hearts content without damaging the original.
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks Phil,
I've been playing with CAD stuff for years - there comes a time with a given model that you think "do you know what, I really just don't want to do this any more" and I got there with this particular wagon about this time last year. It's a long story.
The only reasons I tried it was a) the model was already designed, and b) that it was such a contrast from the wooden RCH coal wagons, which printed really well after a bit of a learning curve, and I wanted to see whether it was viable to use an FDM approach for this type of model. My conclusion is that it is feasible but perhaps not the best use of the printer, or my time, to do so, whereas using the Saturn Resin printer for wooden wagons would, equally, perhaps not be the best choice.
I have plenty to keep me entertained!!!
Watch this space!
best
Simon
Lawrence Boul
Western Thunderer
Why would the resin printer not be a good choice? This is 9mm (sitting on a bit of O gauge PECO), but I think it's a pretty good use of resin printing for something close in size to a British open in 7mm. Printed some years ago, so not high res by today's standards.
simond
Western Thunderer
Morning Lawrence,
I spent a good few months getting the resin prints to work on the N6 coal wagons.
It was at times frustrating, but the results were, to my eyes, worth it. Having acquired the FDM printer, I’m playing around to learn how to use it effectively, and to see what the problems and advantages can be. The resin is going to win in some areas, particularly fine detail, and the way the supports can be managed, but the FDM is cleaner, less hassle, and the prints are more robust/less brittle and less likely to warp. Also, materials, it’s possible to print transparent resin, and “rubber” FDM, for example.
Hopefully my observations are grist to the mill for anyone going down the same route.
best
Simon
I spent a good few months getting the resin prints to work on the N6 coal wagons.
It was at times frustrating, but the results were, to my eyes, worth it. Having acquired the FDM printer, I’m playing around to learn how to use it effectively, and to see what the problems and advantages can be. The resin is going to win in some areas, particularly fine detail, and the way the supports can be managed, but the FDM is cleaner, less hassle, and the prints are more robust/less brittle and less likely to warp. Also, materials, it’s possible to print transparent resin, and “rubber” FDM, for example.
Hopefully my observations are grist to the mill for anyone going down the same route.
best
Simon
Lawrence Boul
Western Thunderer
I know a few people who use FDM. They do good work and it does have advantages (Large scale resin is a pain to clean up). If I was doing Big Big Train in the garden I wouldn't hesitate. I think consistency is very important in any modelling. A broadly uniform approach lends a cohesive feel. For those agonising over etched engines (for example) I don't feel FDM cuts it. But not everybody wants extreme closeups that look real.
simond
Western Thunderer
Just had a read back, the N6 project started late 23, and consistently good (resin) wagons were achieved in spring 25.
There were several distractions along the way.
I feel there will be applications where FDM is the optimum technique, and others where 3DP of any sort is just not suitable. Horses for courses, but of course, without trying, it’s difficult to know what’s likely to reward, or frustrate.
There were several distractions along the way.
I feel there will be applications where FDM is the optimum technique, and others where 3DP of any sort is just not suitable. Horses for courses, but of course, without trying, it’s difficult to know what’s likely to reward, or frustrate.
Lawrence Boul
Western Thunderer
Like so many things, it may be less about the technique and more about ones knowledge and experience. I've done a lot or resin printing, so it's my go to and generally good first time with maybe an optimisation or two. I end up with a lot of versions, but that's less about printability and more about being unable to resist small improvements. With FDM, of course, it would be back to kindergarten.
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
I suspect it will be more about cost and user-friendliness. An FDM printer capable of printing a 7mm wagon costs £140 (Bambu A1 mini) and can be used on the corner of the kitchen table. Simple FDM printers are available as children's toys. Material costs are minimal. It's likely that an FDM printer will become as common among modellers as a soldering iron.
UV-resin printing is toxic and messy. It requires a workshop area away from living areas, and a means to exclude daylight while handling uncured resin. The results can be superb, but it's not for everyone.
Martin.
Hayfield1
Western Thunderer
Lawrence
There is no doubt at the moment resin prints still has the edge over FDM prints in fine detail, but over the past few years the gap is closing up fast
As martin and others have said, resin printing is smelly, messy and more difficult than FDM printing
With FDM prints, the simplicity of printing especially in the domestic area, coupled with its flexibility and strength is making 3D printing available to far more folk
Advances in both printers and filament as I said is closing the gap as is the strides in better software. I for one gave up on resin printing as it was too fickle especially when temperatures rose, not to say messy and time-consuming
In my mind over the next couple of years both FDM printers and filament will continue to improve, not to say programming of print files will improve, that is until the next jump in technology
John
There is no doubt at the moment resin prints still has the edge over FDM prints in fine detail, but over the past few years the gap is closing up fast
As martin and others have said, resin printing is smelly, messy and more difficult than FDM printing
With FDM prints, the simplicity of printing especially in the domestic area, coupled with its flexibility and strength is making 3D printing available to far more folk
Advances in both printers and filament as I said is closing the gap as is the strides in better software. I for one gave up on resin printing as it was too fickle especially when temperatures rose, not to say messy and time-consuming
In my mind over the next couple of years both FDM printers and filament will continue to improve, not to say programming of print files will improve, that is until the next jump in technology
John
Lawrence Boul
Western Thunderer
My point was really regarding @simond who has both - so cost didn't come in to it.
I don't think machine cost is a huge factor anyway. Entry level resin printers are not dear. I don't know where you got the idea that daylight needs to be excluded, but that's a fallacy. Direct sun on uncured resin is a very bad idea, but bright ambient light is fine for the the short periods routine actions take place outside the printer. My printers get direct sun every morning and have done for many years. But the other points are reasonable: Buying the printer is the least cost, it does involve chemicals and is not family friendly. But then neither is soldering.
The quality from a resin printer can exceed ready to run. A manufacturer producing RTR at FDM resolution would be pilloried. So yes, FDM has benefits, but the resolution isn't there. That may not always matter, and to some it won't matter at all.
The discussion on FDM printing a wagon was full of suggestions to tweak the process. Resin printing is no different. Cheap resins and the average Youtube advice will likely not lead to great results quickly.
This 1:64 wagon printed in 1 piece. It had etched axleguards (clip in) and a few bits of wire. No floor (etch or plastic), but build it in a hour. You won't be doing that with FDM.
Lawrence Boul
Western Thunderer
I'm not arguing that resin printing is for everyone. The discussion was about which of two technologies @simond had available would be best for the job.